Duel HD booting problem

Hi Everyone,
I'm a new guy to this Forum. I guess I'm a reasonably knowledgeable guy, but not close to a guru.
Here's my problem:
I have a Dell Inspiron 531 that I had added an extra HD to a while back. And set it up to Boot up either Vista or XP based using F12 to select the system to boot. Worked fine. Then the memory battery in the computer failed and I didn't realize it had happened.
Then I decided to upgrade to Win7. I "thought" I installed it over Vista using a clean install. But it went on somewhere else. Next thing I noted was now I could select which windows to boot up without using F12 to select.
I could just click on Win7 or Vista. Problem is, now I could not find XP
Problem -- because I have to have XP available.

Ok, no problem, I'll just start over and clean re-install XP over Win7 and I'm in business. No way! Now XP will always start, but when I try to boot using F12 to reverse the boot sequence I get an error code saying "NTLDR is Missing". I think this has something to do with the other hd not configured properly.
HDD 0 has XP on it, as I disconnected HDD1 and the computer still booted.
But when I disconnected HDD 0, then I get the "NTLDR missing". So I know
my problem is with the HDD 0
Problem is when I look at the drives listed on XP, it shows the C drive as
being HDD0 and the other drive is listed as the D drive. And I'm assuming
it's my HDD1 as it has windows folders on it and appears as though it should be able to boot up.
Another strange thing is the fact that BEFORE I did the clean XP re install, when I looked at the drive listings it showed my second drive HDD1 as the
F drive, not the D drive as it shows now.

Anyway, I'm totally lost at this point and really need some help on this one.
Can anyone help me?

Regards,
George

 

Hi,

I'm a bit confused. You have XP on drive 0 and it boots every time.
On drive 1 you have Vista or Win7 or what?
You haven't been able to get to the other OS since the fresh install of XP?

I think editing the XP boot.ini should work to add the other OS but am not entirely sure.
If you could give a screen shot of Disk Management from XP that would be helpful.

Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Computer Management and then Disk Management from the left side panel.
Print Screen key on your keyboard. Open Paint and then select Edit and Paste. Save as a .jpg and attach the picture to your next post. If the picture is larger than 99kb then zip it up and attach the zip file.

 

Dear sash2

I've been experimenting with this problem by disabling the HDD 1 I installed. And when I do that I get a message saying "could not read from the selected boot disc".
Based on what I noted after reading the data present on the jpg I sent you, that tells me that for whatever reason, the hard drive (HDD 1) that I installed is the one that is booting up XP. So I'm assuming XP is on HDD 1, not on HDD 0. So apparently XP does reside on HDD 1 where I wanted to install it.
If this is the case why can't I also boot onto the HDD 0, where I assume Vista resides?

Hopefully these comments may help you figure out my problem because as it stands now, my brain is "fried"

Thanks,
George

 

Well, I'm really in deep dodo now! AGGH
I plugged in both HD's again so I could at least run XP and now both
HD's give me the error code "NTLDR is missing". I'm now totally up the creek without a paddle!
George

 

I'm still confused which drive is which.

It looks like XP is on the 250gb drive and Vista/win7 are on the 320gb drive.

Try this and then boot and see if you get a choice of OS and if the new entry boots or gives you an error.

Right-click My Computer, and then click Properties.
On the Advanced tab, click Settings under Startup and Recovery.
Under System Startup, click Edit.
This will open your boot.ini file in Notepad. Copy and paste the below line to the end of the file and save it. Reboot and select the second choice and see what you get. If it doesn't boot you can just select the first choice to get back into XP.

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Vista/7" /fastdetect

Edit: Did you connect the drives to the same cables and not reverse them?

 

===I did not invert them. They are as they were.

===Another note -- After my last post I installed the XP install disc and
booted using the CD. XP came right up and there was no Blue screen with
the instructions to install XP.
Not only that but xp ran fine. I looked at the reporting like I sent you on the jpg and nothing has changed.
I then removed the cd and tried a normal boot. Got the "NTLDR is missing"
error again.

===I'm gonna try your current suggestions next. But somehow I think I've
probably cooked my install. And may need your expertise to clean BOTH HD's and start from scratch to install Vista on one drive as it was, and XP on the other. But HOPEFULLY with the ability to boot either one on start up.
Since I'm not going to lose data, no big deal.

Thanks for all the help!
George

 

I just discovered that when I install the xp install disc that if I follow instructions and hit any key, the blue screen install program starts.
On the other hand if I just install the CD and boot from it -- then don't press any key, XP comes up ready to go!
I'm really "fried" now!!

 

While you have the boot.ini open let me know what the last line of the file is before you add the new line. I just need to know what the rdisk # and partition # are. That should help clear things up.

 

Here's the line:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

By the way, after adding your line below this, I tried things again. I left the XP disc in place and booted. Then ignored the "hit any key". And I got a choice to either boot
from Vista/7 or XP. Problem is when I tried it both ways, it always opened as XP.
And to top that off, when I removed the disc from the CD it went back to telling me
that NTLDR was missing, just like before. Without the XP disc in place there is no starting any program.

Gotta grab a bite of dinner then bed. I'm an "oldie" so I need my rest. I'll be looking forward to your comments tomorrow morning.
I REALLY do appreciate your working with me. This is a very vexing problem for me. It's
way PAST my understanding!
Geo

 

Yes, it shouldn't be so hard. XP not starting on its own just complicates things.

You were right about XP being on that second disk by itself. The line I added to the boot.ini points to the same place. You can delete that line we added and replace it with this when you get a chance. This one should point to your actual Vista/7 partition. If it doesn't start then we can use the Vista/7 DVD to fix the boot files which should get whichever OS you have on there booting.

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="Vista/7" /fastdetect

The other thing I want to do is find the XP boot files which should be on C: but might be on the large 300gb partition so I need a list of files.

One last thought if you think it would be easier to reinstall, would be to have only one HD connected during your installs. And then just use F12 to select.
I think your current boot problems are fixable but just giving an option.

Have a good night.

 

There's no partition marked as 'Active'?

 

Hi sach2,
After giving some thought to things, I like your suggestion to re install XP with
only one drive (HDD1) hooked up. Then be sure it's working correctly.

Then unplug XP and go back to HDD0 and see if it's possible to get it to run
without re installing Vista. If not, then re install Vista too.

Hopefully, in the end, I can simply press F12 and select which system I want to run.

Trying to reduce my "head spinning"

I'll be in touch when XP is re installed and working again.
Thanks,
George

 

Dear sach2,
I've now got XP installed on HDD1 only. And it's working correctly.

What should I do next? Unplug HDD1, and plug in HDD0 and see what happens?
If it won't boot, then should I try using the Vista re install disc that came
with the computer?
Or is there some way to manipulate the hard drive to try and save Vista without
doing a "clean install"?
Thanks,
George

 

Unplug the HDD1 that has XP.
Plug in HDD0 on its original cable.
See if it boots.
It probably won't.
Now, how is the disc that came with the comuter labeled? Does it say Operating System or Recovery?
Do you have a Win7 disc from Microsoft?

I'm looking for a disc that will boot up to these screens: Where it says Option 2 http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/668-system-recovery-options.html

You want to see if in step 5 of option 2 it shows a Drive letter and Operating System.

 

Vista: It clearly states that it is an operating system disk.
And I also have a Win7 operating system disk.

I will test and see if I can determine a drive letter and Op system and
get back to you shortly

 

Then I believe either disc should do. If it offers an automatic repair go ahead and let it do it. Then try to boot without the disc.

 

I installed the Vista install disc. It had a repair feature. So I did a repair.
It took only about 5 sec until it told me to re boot and see if it worked.
I removed the disk and re booted.
Started up perfect!
HALLALULIA!!

I noted during the re boot w/o the disk in that it came up with Windows
Boot Manager.
showed both Win7 and Vista next.
Worked perfectr starting Vista. But I tried to start Win7 with no luck.
That's no big deal except I would like to get rid of any Win7 files that are cluttering up the HD.
I have another new Dell with Win7 pro on it, so I don't need 7 on this computer also.

Next I'll try hooking up both HDD's and seeing if it will start either one I need using using the F12 boot select start.
Stay tuned!

 

Do test the F12 method with both HDD connected. So we know if that is a possibility.

I'd also like to know which OS it starts by default if you don't use F12.

As far as the Win7 entry, I,m surprised on that one. I thought it would be Vista or Win7 depending on which you had put on there. There is only one ~200gb OS partition so it seems you must have two OS on one partition.

When you get a chance, start Vista and go to the Start menu and type in cmd
cmd.exe will appear in the search results, right-click it and select Run as Administrator.
In the DOS window type or copy/paste the following command:

bcdedit /enum all > %userprofile%\desktop\bcd.txt

Find the bcd.txt file on your Desktop and attach it to a post here at MG.

 

Working PERFECT! Boots to either system using F12
I'm a happy camper!

But I am wondering if there is any way to stop the boot manager splash showing Win7/Vista choice before booting Vista. Or is there a way to
get it to show XP instead of Win7, which I'm only interested in removing the
"leftovers" on HDD0

I noted during the Vista repair that I got a screen that listed Vista and Win7 but showed that there was nothing in a Partition. Since I "thought" I never set up a partition for Win7, I'm wondering why that showed up?
It also stated that Vista was the only OS that could be repaired.

Whatever the case, there is no way I'm gonna do a "clean" install of Vista because as it is now, everything is working without having to install all the other stuff that came with it to make it complete.

I'm sure I'll have some more questions as I already realize that XP is not gonna run properly until I find the drivers needed for the various hardware that's on the computer. I know I have some of the needed drivers already on
a disk that I did up when I first installed XP on this computer.

But that was so long ago that I should probably go looking for upgrades.

I REALLY appreciate all your help! Now I'm back "on track".

Oh, by the way, I'm told that Win7 pro has the ability to let you work
in an XP environment. Is this true?
I've not yet received my new Dell with Win7 Pro on it, so I have no first
hand knowledge of this.

Regards,
George

 

I'm not sure about the virtual xp environment. I keep meaning to experiment with that but haven't been extremely motivated. You might ask in a new post in software. I know there are guys/gals here that do that all the time. I can learn something from that sort of thread as well.

Do the bcdedit thing and that should tell us where the Win7 entry is coming from in the boot manager.

I'll think about the most straightforward way to try to get both OS booting from the boot manager. I haven't needed to dual boot XP and Win7 and the separate drives is a consideration. Do let me know what boots with no F12 selection so I can tell if it is the XP boot manager or Vista's that has primary control. I don't want to mess things up, so I'll look at it and post something tomorrow.

I'm not good at drivers but the people that frequent the Drivers section can probably get things sorted. If you get stuck I can probably muddle through but there are others that are better at drivers than I am.

 

See above for comments

 

Vista has the Search box at the bottom of the Start menu. When you type cmd without hitting enter it should give cmd.exe at the top of the search results. Then right click that and select Run as Administrator.' If it didn't run it should have given you an error.

Do you have a bcd.txt file on your desktop? Edit: I mean to check if the original try successfully created the file. If not try again doing the above.

 

==== I went back and looked on the desktop just now, there was a bcd.txt notpad file there.
When I opened it, it said:
"The boot configuration data store could not be opened.
Access is denied.

 

That is why you need to right click the cmd.exe listing.

I don't know why you are having trouble with the search box at the bottom of the menu but you can instead hit All Programs then go to Accessories folder and right-click (with your mouse) Command Prompt and then select Run as Administrator.

You should delete the current bcd.txt before trying again.

 

Oh, by the way --
I was born and raised in Orlando. Spent most of my life there. But moved up to the Lady Lake area 16 years ago. We have 10 acres in the country.

I'm a retired motorcycle roadracer that has spent almost my entire life in motor sports. Basically earned my living in racing for most of my life. Now I'm 73 years old and no longer earning a living racing -- I'm "over the hill". But my mind still says I'm 20, but my body says I'm a 100!! hehe
Geo

 

xxxxxxx

 

Hi sach2,
Been gone most of the day. Just got home.
Here's the bdc.txt file you wanted. Finally figured out how to get
it using your alternative method.

Thanks for the comments about Win 7 and virtual xp. I'll chase that down after I actually have the computer and get it set up.

I'll keep you posted.

I think I mentioned this, but as it stands now, if I turn on the computer and
do not boot using F12 that it always comes up:

Windows Boot Menu:
Win 7
Vista

It never starts xp unless I use F12 and then select HDD1

Regards,
George

 

Thanks for the bcd text. It says the Win7 it is referencing is on drive F: which you don't have as far as I can see.

When you are in Vista (it must be Vista's Disk Management) go to Disk Management and double check that there is no F:.
As long as it no longer exists we can just delete the entry from the boot loader.

 

xxxxx

 

Control Panel>Administrator Tools>Computer Management and then Disk Management from the left pane.
-or-
You can type Disk Management into the Search box in the Start Menu.

I think EasyBCD will be the easiest way to add XP to the boot menu. Scroll down this page and get the free version. It will ask for an name and email but they don't verify so you can use real or fake email address.

We will backup your current BCD, delete the win7 entry and then add an XP entry.

 

Hi sach2,
Turns out that I'm not going to have time to finish up my computer set up today. My wife reminded me of things I promised to do for her today. So I'll
pick back up on the computer tomorrow.
Regards,
George

 

Hi sach2,
Been busy most of the day but I did have time to download Easy BDC and I have it set up on Vista now.
But I'll have to wait to continue until tomorrow as I've got early evening commitments to meet.

I'll e mail you tomorrow when I'm set to make the changes in the boot set up.

Again, thanks so much for your help!

Regards,
George

 

Hi sach2,
I'm back and ready to finish up on my boot set up.
I've installed EasyBDC as you suggested onto Vista. After looking at
the program it appears that all I need to do is follow the instructions to remove Win7 and install XP to boot.
If this is not the case, let me know. And I'll follow your instructions to get the job done.
I'll proceed as soon as I receive your response.
Regards,
George

 

Hi again sach2,
I just noted something on my Vista set up that you commented on earlier in one of your comments. About your not seeing any F: drive.

Well, I just found one that showed up when I hit "my computer" on the desktop.
Here's the details:
Computer
Floppy Disk A:
OS C:
Recovery D:
DVD/CDRW Drive E:
Local Disc F:

And here's what shows up when you open local Disc F:
Documents and Settings
Program Files
WINDOWS

Let me know how to get rid of the local disc F:
As it's bound to be Win7 which I wish to eliminate.

Thanks,
George

 

I think it is labeling your XP HD as drive F: so you want to leave it alone. (XP has a Documents and Settings folder where Vista or Win7 have a Users folder in its place.) We can remove the entry from the BCD but we want to leave the files on your computer since they are really XP files.

Let's just do one thing at a time to make sure you're ok.

Open BCD and click BCD Backup/Repair button. In the middle of the window above the backup button should be a file path C:\Users\your username\Documents\EasyBCD Backup (08-21-2012).bcd if that is coorect hit the Backup button. This is the window you will be working in: http://neosmart.net/gallery/photo/view/neosmart/EasyBCD/EasyBCD+2.0/BCD+Backup+and+Repair/o/

Then check your Documents folder/library to make sure the file has been created.

 

I'd also like you to copy that file to C:\

So when you find the file right click it and select Copy.
Then in the left navigation pane open C: and paste the file.
You may have to give Administrative permission to complete the copy.
Then rename the copy in C:\ to a short name like bcdaug12.bcd

 

Ok, I've got it installed in C:\ on Vista, and have re named it <bckaug21.bck>

I await your next instructions.
Geo

 

Good.

Then you go to the Edit Boot Menu and delete the win7 entry. Just tick the box and hit the Delete button.

 

The last step is to hit the Add Entry button.
In the top half of the window under Operating Systems, use the drop down to select Windows NT/Xp/2k. You can change the default name if you like. Leave the checkbox marked for Automatically configure and hit Add Entry button. If no error message then go ahead and reboot and try the XP entry to see if it loads. If it loads Ok then restart and check Vista. Let me know how it goes.

Top half of window should look like this: http://neosmart.net/gallery/photo/view/neosmart/EasyBCD/EasyBCD+2.0/Add+Entry+Windows+XP+auto/o/

 

ok, done deal. Now it shows only windows vista.
Geo

 

We posted at the same time so I just posted last step in previous post.

 

Oh MY, it works perfectly!! Thank you so MUCH for your patience with me!!
Geo

 

Great!
You are very welcome.

I would do one more thing and go back to the backup window in EasyBCD and backup this new working file.

The default name will probably be the same as before so you will have to change it by adding a character or two to the end. Then hit the backup button.
I would again copy it to C: and rename the copy something short with no spaces in the name like bcddual.bcd

The reason for copying it to C:\ is that if you ever have a problem with the BCD you will be able to restore one of these copies using your install disc and they will be easy to find. The files are tiny so the extra copies are negligible. The short names just make it easier to access the file using the command prompt.

Now it is your dinner time.

 

Thank you for your efforts to guide me through the minefields. I really
appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll let you know when I get my new Dell with Win7pro and see what's up on the virtual xp environment.

Regards,
George

 

Oh, one last thing I meant to mention earlier is that on the Edit Boot Menu screen you can change the "Boot Default OS after" time from 30 seconds to something more reasonable like 5 seconds. (I find 3 seconds is the minimum time that is comfortable for me.)

This would be useful if you usually boot into Vista and only occasionally boot into XP. You could just let the 5 seconds elapse rather than having to hit enter to get into Vista.