Fahrenheit 9/11

I would be honored to cast my first vote for G.T.!

 

I'd vote for ya GT



No more taxes for life for all Geeks who vote for GT!

 

"If nominated, I shall not run. If elected, I shall not serve." General Sherman after the Civil War, when they tried to get him to run for president. Smart man. The General knew his limits.

I'm a writer, not a public tap dancer, and have neither the pedigree, nor the history to get anybody's attention in a voting booth.

But I'm flattered.

Welcome to the voting minority Gina. Sadly, it IS a minority. Too few people value it properly. It's always more comfortable being part of a group. We're social animals at heart. And there's nothing wrong with being part of a group you truly believe in. But in politics, I haven't found any one group that both has a lock on principle, and has all running candidates being properly principled. The only time you HAVE to commit is on election day. On other days, I'd rather shop around.

 

You see what I mean??? G.T. for PREZ!!!!!

 

Oh knock it off!

 

No, I agree with dperino, G.T.! You can add humility to the list of reasons why you would make a good leader. As for those who have a pedigree they are mostly ego-inflated, selfish types who are in politics for the wrong reason! But this is exactly what I said in my earlier post about those who would be perfect for the job-- they don't want to run...

BTW, others have told me I would have to commit on election day. Stupid question: Do the polling people ask you for your political affiliation? If so, will they allow you to say "Independent?" Do you have to answer "Democrat" or "Republican?" Could I answer "Libertarian" just to throw them off? I don't know what to expect at all...

Much Thanks,
Gina

 

You mean when I registered to vote? I did that when I renewed my driver's license and they didn't ask my affiliation. I have moved since then and I probably need to renew my driver's license address anyway...

Thanks,
Gina

 

Primary elections are supposed to be party specific, and you have to declare for one party to get a ballot for that party.

In general (real) elections, they're forbidden to ask you anything about who or what party you want to vote for. The general ballots have all the candidates that were chosen from all parties, and you can play the field.

Registering to vote has nothing to do with any party affiliation either.

 

Thanks again, MA & GT. If/when asked I guess I'll just toss a coin... LOL!

Gina

 

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 (Does Michael Moore know of Alex Jones?) must see web video

The NY Post reported in May that:

"MICHAEL Moore's anti-Bush film "Fahrenheit 9/11" isn't even original. Two years ago, "9/11: The Road to Tyranny," a real documentary by Alex Jones, had most of the "facts" Moore uses in his scatter-shot diatribe. Jones, who is less interested in making money than the self-aggrandizing Moore, released his film for free on his Web site www.infowars.com, where it drew legions of new fans, including producer Curt Johnson, who is hiring Jones as a consultant on a political action thriller titled "Wake Up."

see free web video http://www.infowars.com/tyranny.htm

 

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 (Does Michael Moore know of Alex Jones?) must see web video

Moore info:

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com
http://www.moorewatch.com
http://www.moorelies.com
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com
http://www.mooreexposed.com

 

I just saw the movie yesterday and i must say it was very powerfull. I agree with Dan that everyone should see it. Even if you disagree with everything in the movie it is worth seeing to get the point of view of other people who dont believe in the same things you do.

As some say that the movie is purely fiction and based off of lies, i got no indication of that at all. Moore provides documents of money trails, and reccords that show ties of the Bush family and Saudi investors. Moore shows how George W Bush ran all his bussiness into the ground, which where then saved by his fathers saudi friends, along with companys his father, and the familys close friends have money invested in, and how those companys profited from 9/11. All these facts are very interesting, and i am glad i was able to see them.

Also the movie shows how George Bush spent a majority of his time on vacation, prior to 9/11. When asked by reporters, how he is getting work done, he just laughed and make a smart alic comment.

One of my favorite seans was when George Bush was in the school on 9/11. When he was told that the country was under attack, he just sat there! Can u believe that! If you heard your country was under attack wouldnt you jump up and take control?

I think Moores decision of using sounds instead of video to depict the events of 9/11 was extreamly dramatic. I just sat there listening and i saw the planes hitting the towers in my mind.

One of the most powerfull sceans in the movie, for me at least, was when Moore went to the White House with the mother that lost her son. I was crying just watching her. It made me sad and angry when that stingy women came up and called everything a stage. Some people just dont have a clue.

Now my favorite part of the movie was when Moore and the young Marine, went to that capital to get the congress men to inlist there sons and daughters in the military. The reactions on the congressmens faces where hilarious. They look at him like "are you crazy"

Of corse the movie covers alot more, but i figured i would sum up the parts that spoke to me the most for those of you who will not see it, or havnt had the chance to yet.

Please remember this is my opinion of the movie, this is what i think of it and no one can change it, so please do not try to prove me wrong.

I will go see it again, and i reccomend it to everyone.

Oh ya sorry about the spelling errors, its close to 2am and it was a long write
Thats all for me! Goodnight folks!




Cooked

 

In this country, they have a very strange, oxymoron type process. Now - I can't vote, because I'm not a Citizen, but I can because I'm a British Subject still. But then they notice I have U.S. Citizenship as well - so they won't let me anyway I give up!

In the ultimate oxymoron 'down under', voting is compulsory (you get fined if you don't vote), so that even the process of so-called 'Democracy', is not exactly Democratic!

 

http://www.infowars.com/tyranny.htm

This message is for anyone who has seen Alex Jones' documentary on the elitist forces behind 9/11, not to mention it's whole historical undertaking. I would love to hear your comments of the actual documentary video on the web, hey it's free but it takes a little of your time. I will leave you with a quote by Bill Hicks:

"The world is like a ride at an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it, you think that it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly coloured, and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question - is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us. They say 'Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride.' And we...kill those people. Ha ha ha. 'Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride. SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and family. This just has to be real.' It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter because: it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings, and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourselves off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one."
"Here's what you can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defence each year, and instead spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, for ever, in peace."

 

amen to that. peace love and aloha

 

Yeah...that's what we need...better fed enemies.

 

I'm curious. Do you leave your keys in your car? Are there locks on your doors? Do you give your money out to anyone who asks, without any considerations or conditions? Do you trust everyone you meet, and extend an open invitation to anyone, without expectations or exceptions? When you can answer "no" to the first two questions and "yes" to the last three, please come back and tell us how it worked out for you. Enjoy your ride.

 

I haven't been here for a couple of days and I must say this discussion is alot more civil than at another board I've been on discussing the topic with some very close minded people. You know, thy type of argument that gets into name calling. How refreshing. I can't remember if I've made anyone mad at me here so if I did remind me.

Thanks

IMSA

 

We have to be civil. The mods here are stricter than a Victorian Headmaster.

 

i can answer no to the first three questions and yes to the next three. i dont even know how to reply. i dont know whether to say 'yeh shucks' or try and give you a real answer.
yes ive been ripped off. yes my generosity has been abused. but goodness and kindness has been repaid to me a thousand times over.
this is not only true of my here and now, but true of my entire life. my door has always been open, and because of that there is usually someone at home...that kinda cuts down on the burglaries.

there is more than one way of living your life.

aloha

 

That's why he's president and not you. He's got self control. Yeah, jump up in a class of kids and do what? Wasn't exactly much he could do right then and there.
I remember seeing those videos. What I saw was a man who had alot of self control and didn't want to upset a bunch of children.

 

Just curious. What exactly do you mean by close minded? If somebody believes something to be truth and will not be convinced otherwise, does that make him close minded? The only people I've noticed that use that term are the liberals who won't change their opinions about abortion, gay rights, etc.

You can call me close minded also. Because I will not even entertain the idea of watching some idiot like Michael Moore bash this country.

 

I do not like George Bush, and I detest Mr. Moore. From what I have heard (I've not seen the movie as yet) Moore bashes Bush, not this country. And sometimes changes that are needed come from a good bashing, be it a person or country.

As stated, I do not care for Mr. Bush, but I think he has taken a lot of unfair press and cheap shots lately. I think in reality the prez is doing what he thinks best. Is he doing this openly and honestly? Hell no...of course it is the nature of the position, and they all have to operate in that way to some extent, no matter who has the job.

 

Well i didnt expect him to jump up and go histarical. He could have just said something like " excuase me i need to step out for a moment". He then could have left and went to where ever he needed to go to run the country.

Self control was the last thing i saw. I saw a man, if you can call him that, sitting there not knowing what to do. No one told him he had to leave, no secret service came in and rushed him out, he just sat there puzzled!

and again mind the spelling errors its after 12am.



cooked

 

I agree with you ArchAngel, about Moore, but I think IMSA's point is well made. We won't change his mind, and (s)he won't change ours, but at least we can be decent about it. During the recent European Soccer Championship I returned, as I am wont to do, to my favourite soccer message board. Holy cow, what a zoo. It's kind of fun to swear and abuse people for a while, but I definitely prefer rational discussion.

 

The last thing moore does is bash this country! The dam movie is a tribute to our country and the troops, for gods sake. The movie is aimed at one person "Bush"

 

I went to see fahrenheit 9/11 tonight and it was, to put it simply... amazing. You will cry, you will probably laugh, and you'll leave the theater needing not only to talk to someone about what you've seen, but needing to DO something about it too.

Moore's ability to build a compelling documentary, has been getting better and better since "Rodger and Me." In his latest film he manages to do something he hasn't yet been able to do. He compiles a good chunk, fourty to fifty percent, of the movie from footage that most people have seen before. It's compelling because it's farmiliar, but it's also compelling because we have new information and a new context to put it in.

He also manages to present you with information you haven't seen before. There are interviews with the soldiers serving in Iraq, footage of combat missions, interviews with the families of soldiers.

One of the most compelling stories is the story of the Lipscomb family from Flint, Michigan. Lila Lipsomb is introduced to us as a social services worker, trying to help the desolate town of Flint get back on it's feet. She is pro military, telling Moore how she encouraged her children to join up, because she would be unable to provide them with the opportunities that the military could offer, and further detailing her familie's military past. Lipscomb tells us that the military is a good option for the youth of Flint.

After her son is deployed to Iraq, we are walked through the tourterous experiance of her life as she waits to hear from him, or see him on the news. Anything so she knows he's alright. But in the end he was not alright, he was killed in a helicopter crash. She reads his last letter, and recounts her telephone call from the military informing her that her son had died. We then see her transformation from a staunch war supporter to a anti-war advocate.

If you follow politics closely there's not going to be a lot in the movie that surprises you. Most of the facts about the Bush family's ties to the Saudi's and the Bin Ladens are well documented by now. However it's important to see how everything ties together. How everything comes together into a sequence of events that is easy to follow.

In short, GO SEE THE MOVIE, it may not change your mind, or your vote, but it will make you more well informed, and as a famous person once said... "A well informed electorate is essential to the functioning of a democracy."

 

I thought that he handled it rather well, considering the fact that he was delivered catastrophic news in front of not only a gaggle of kids, but news cameras as well. What I saw was a man who's mind was instantly going a million miles a minute. As much as I dislike him, I think he handled that situation remarkably well. Think about it, he could very well have caused a nation wide panic if he had reacted poorly. And I think that that will be the last compliment that Georgie Boy gets from me.

 

Very good job pendragn. Well put!



cooked

 

He did handle it rather well. He did not go crazy, and cause a panic. That was good. The bad was that he did nothing. Even if his mind was going a million miles a minute, he should have gotton out of the class and into his limo and got on the phone, and find out what is happening. All that could have been done quitely and calmly.



cooked

 

I saw 9-11 yesterday and thought it was a good film. But for the most part there wasn’t anything in the film I hadn’t heard or seen before (I am a self admitted media junkie). As a person I have no problem with Bush. He might even be fun to have a beer or two with. But in my opinion he lacks the political experience and intellectual depth to lead the country. I think Bush Sr. and other high level Republicans knew this as well which would explain Bush Jr. being surrounded by Republicans from Sr.’s administration. Those are the people I have problems with. Cheney and his ties to Halliburton with defered compensation and stock options. Rumsfeld and his planning of the war since the very start of Jr.’s term as president. And then there’s Ashcroft and Wolfiwitz(sp). I don't have a problem with Powell. I feel sorry for him having to argue issues he and the administration know weren’t true at the UN. And anyone who hates Rumsfeld as much as Powell does can’t be a bad guy.

Now before I’m accused of being anti-American, a socialist, or communist, let me say I do not vote straight Democratic line. Never had and never will. A politician I greatly admired was Tom McCall, former Republican Governor of Oregon. I like Bob Dole a lot but strongly disagree with his political views. Ford was a good president is a good man. I didn’t care for Regan but admired how he reinstalled a sense of patriotism in a country split since Vietnam. Clinton was probably the best liberal Republican president we ever had.

Believe what you want to believe. No discussion on a computer forum is going to change anyone’s mind one way or another on how to vote. Those seeing Moore’s film will vote Democrat. Those who absolutely will not see Moore’s “film of lies” are going to vote Republican. That’s fine, just vote. If you’re going to argue against or for Moore’s film, you should see it first just so you know what you're talking about.


IMSA

 

Well Cooked, I guess we can "could've" and "shoud've" this thing all night and it will change nothing. The reality is that we are where we are today from that point. While Georgie Boy is not getting my vote, I still think that he has been unfairly maligned in many instances, and quite fairly in others. There is quite a lot about Georgie, and his whole fan damily, that he has worked hard to surpress. Then again, he is a typical politician. They want you to think that they crap gold nuggets and are as pure as snow. I think what Moore has done is take his film beyond a "documentary" and made a vendetta out of it. That is just wrong and unjust in my book, regardless of the victim.

 

Here's an opinion of the movie by Christopher Ruddy of Newsmax.com.

Click me

 

i liked blair witch,
but I guess every has their own opinion

 

I couldn't sleep so I got back up to read MG. (I'm going back to bed now.) IMSA, I just wanted to commend you for your courage in giving your opinion. For the most part I agree with everything you said here but am scared sometimes that if I express my opinions they will be torn apart, and I have no desire to get into a flaming contest with several people against one of me. I have only seen it happen once here but I have no desire to be the 2nd. I haven't seen the film yet but plan to, although like you, I have read much about the ties of the Bush/bin Laden families, Cheney & cronies' ties with Haliburton, and all the money being made from this very profitable war. As a matter of fact, I have read that the ties with media are even stronger. I doubt this movie will tell me anything I don't already believe to be true. I believe Bush Jr. was a mere puppet in all of this and is doing the bidding of the Republican masterminds. (His father's administration, as you said in your post.) I do worry about the Dems having their own "extra-curriculars," though and pray that they are not as corrupt.

As a fellow media junky, I have also heard (and believe) some of the conspiracy theorists' reasonings and some of them make more sense than the explanations we get from our government (to me anyway.) I have no desire to rehash it all here as I've done on many boards, as I value some of you as friends and regardless of what you believe, we all have the right to our own opinion. I also have no desire to be banned. We love our country deeply and so these types of discussions tend to get heated. Basically, I just wanted to pay respect to IMSA, as it can't be an easy thing to face a firing squad, or risk being "accused of being anti-American, a socialist, or communist" as you put it; those are hurtful words. I have debated posting something similar to what you posted for months... Thank you for taking the lead! Just know that you are not alone on this forum in your beliefs.

Notice that I did not name-call or sink to a low level here. All my sentences were prefaced with "I think," "I believe," or "I have read." So if you respect my right to derive meaning out of what I read, believe what I want to believe or have my own opinion, please don't accuse me of being anti-American, socialist, or communist either. I have read numerous posts from people who believe differently than I do, and I do not comment because your opinion does not require an answer from me. Thank you.

Peace all, and take care!

Gina

 

I always thought Clinton was a Democrat?
then again, I'm not american so what do I know - haven't seen the movie, so no comment about it.