Gun Safety

A close friend has a few legally owned full auto guns. One is a Lewis Gun. We have planned twice to go with the Lewis gun both times they got flooded out.

I couldn't see what it was but it must have been a Gatling gun at the end of the video.

 

Thanks for the info. Will adjust my s eating grin accordingly. :-D:-D

 

When will everyone just- agree to disagree? :-D
This is a classic debate, never to be resolved.
Like Coke - Pepsi. Well not really but...

Cheers..

 

I guess the FBI statistics are somehow skewed?

I thought the thread WAS about safety. Just because EVERYONE doesn't share your point of view doesn't mean they are against safety. You even claimed to have a loaded gun in a drawer at home. Hopefully that has been remedied.

That's what started you catching so much flack, your comments about people in general being unsafe just because they choose to carry a weapon. If it were as unsafe as you claim, it wouldn't be legal. That prompted myself and others to disagree with you. We are all entitled to our opinions.

The rules you posted are all good rules but need to be taken in context.

The very last one is what people here have been using to suggest that you are taking things to an extreme. If someone hands you a gun, ASSUME IT IS LOADED despite what they tell you, OPEN THE BREECH AND LOOK. If you see daylight through the barrel, it is NOT a loaded gun and is incapable of firing but you NEED to prove that to yourself. When anyone hands me a gun, the first thing I do is point it to the ground and open the breech to satisfy myself that it is unloaded unless I am intending to shoot it.

I don't think anyone is gloozit hunting. They're all defending their own opinions on how to handle and properly/safely carry a weapon.

 

And LOTS of us here know gun safety.
Known since before you were even born.
We can kid around about it, show funny pics and clips, and laugh.
But in the end, we respect what a firearm is capable of.
We are confident in our own abilities with one.
For myself, I was trained as a sniper. Always know your target before squeezing the trigger.
Groundhogs won't come within 450 yards of me because they know they'll never see their shadow again

 

Hey Hrlow2 what was your preferred weapon??
Mine was in the early days a Karl Gustav 7.62 and later i had a Prickskyttegevar 90 that was phenomenal.

 

I got the information wrong here. The kid who was shot was actually out hunting with a cousin and brother who were 17 and 18 at the time.
Sorry for the misinformation.

 

Bill:
XM21 wad what I trained with.
One I used was a 7.62 in a 5 round clip.
Didn't much care for it.
Would much rather have had a bolt action, but didn't come out for several more years.

 

Eating dinner now Gloozit. But, I never said anything about a misfire. I mentioned AD and ND. Accidental Discharge and Negligent Discharge. Misfire/hangfire, different things. :-D


And what point is having a gun for home/self defense if it is locked up and unloaded?:confused

 

I grow bored. Sorry if a simple thread on gun safety go a bit out of hand. But nice we could have a discussion with different views without name calling.

Gloozit, I mentioned proper gun storage in the first post in this thread.

"A modern firearm cannot simply 'go off'. They require a human to shoot. Now, I live alone, no kids, few visitors that I screen. So, I can leave loaded guns around. YMMV. If you have kids, get a gun safe. Be proactive in how you keep your guns. Most gun accidents are caused by ND. Meaning someone was not being safe. Kids and loaded guns don't mix. Use your noggin."

I am stealing this from another forum, I would quote, but don't recall the exact wording.

'There is only one safety on a gun. It is between your ears. If you use it properly, it also works for chainsaws, swimming pools, and many things humans do.'

Potential injury by a device does not make the device 'dangerous' or 'unsafe'. Improper use of said device can be dangerous. If just for example, 100 people kill 100 people with a firearm, do we have 100 dangerous firearms, or 100 dangerous people?

In my opinion, and my experience, guns are perfectly safe tools. IF properly used following the layered gun safety rules.

A modern firearm in proper condition, with the proper ammo, cannot just 'go off'. It takes someone, or sometimes a dog, or gravity to make it go off. That is why we have a layered safety approach.

I have not had anyone in my home under the age of 30 in the last 3 years. Well, except the electician's helper, he looked young. Guns were put away before any repair people are allowed in. That, along with having no children around affords me latitude with having loaded guns around that most people don't have.

Guns are a lot of fun for me. I collect some of the older battle rifles, some newer stuff, some stuff for home defense. My choice, my hobby. If you choose not to, well, OK. Just leaves more of the evil dangerous things for me to buy and hoard. :-D:-D

 

Looks up at the top of the screen. MajorGeeks Support Forums> Majorgeeks.com - Off Topic > Lounge > Gun Safety.

:-D:-D

Gloozit, if this were a tech thread, you would have a point. :cool

 

Yes, I have some old guns as well. 1930 bolt action... That is why I limited my knowledge in this thread to modern firearms in good shape, with the proper ammo. I don't have much knowledge of really old guns and safety, so, I excluded them from my area of knowledge. Thus my disclaimer of modern guns in proper working order with the proper ammo.

This would lead into the possibility of someone who has an older gun to ask a question about safety for their gun. If I can't answer, I can most likely refer them to a place that can. See how the gun safety rules are layered?

 

I am not mad at you at all. If you choose to use a trigger lock to add an extra layer to the basic gun safety rules, then good for you! Maybe this thread has helped someone.

I concealed carry several days a week. So, I deal with bringing in a loaded weapon into the house a lot. I also have some loaded guns in my home. Again, I live alone, no kids, and very few visitors, and they all know guns.

So, I follow the layered rules. A loaded (or any) gun is pointed in a safe direction at all times. Finger is off of the trigger at all times unless the gun is pointed at a target. A CCL gun is in a holster that blocks the trigger. Added safety.

If you feel you are better off with your guns in a safe, then get one! But don't go cheap, like Stack On safes.

Interesting how you ignore the difference between an AD ND and a misfire. But, if you learned anything about gun safety, thread was a success no?

I just hope if you keep that gun for self defense you can get access to it and get it up and running fast enough. A guy on another forum is looking into making injection molding lockable gun mounts for various guns. Might be a good option. If he gets them into production, I will post a link.

 

Not to bug you with details, but older guns require different rules. How can you say it is safer than any gun I own? :confused

If you want to keep your ammo away from your gun. So be it. You might want to look into bad training habits, and the effects of adrenaline on your fine motor skills. Me, I keep one loaded close by. If, agreeably, rare chance, I need a gun at 0 dark 30, I don't want to go looking for my magazine.

Gun, light, 911. We work from there. And, just my thoughts.

I specifically eliminated older guns from my posts because there are a lot of variables with them. I don't shoot black powder guns, so cannot speak on the best or safest use of them. My experience is with post 1900 centerfire guns. And the .22LR.

 

According to that, I should be dead. Gun owner for 27 years. :-D Gun collector for the last 5 years.

Good lord, if the Russian Mosin Nagant or the Yugo 8mm Mauser don't get me, surely the AR, or the .45 will put me out of my misery.

Wonder about that filter. And wonder about your source there. :confused

 

Dang Gloozit, why do you even own a gun?? I've already had a post deleted by whoever, but if you're so set on this "message" you're trying to get across, why do you even own a gun at all?. If someone breaks into your house & you have a gun (loaded OR unloaded) with a trigger lock on it, how do you expect to defend your family (girlfriend, wife, whatever)?? I really don't get what you're trying to say. Idiots are idiots, stupid people are stupid people. There are too many facts out there about responsible gun owners compared to idiots & criminals that refute what you're saying.

 

Interesting reading here.
There's no pleasing Anti-Gunners, Tree Huggers, Sheep...
F__ them
In the event of Fall of Government, Major Disaster, Armageddon, End of Days or the likes of You'll Wish you were my Friend...

I Have a CCW, I'm legal to carry in 33 + States, It should be 50...:major
I practice gun safety every day I just finished practicing with my new 40cal handgun, loading, drawing and firing...
I handle guns every day, Yes, Loaded one's
Without Bullets it's only a club, ya I could beat you with one, But I'd rather shoot you, Only if you deserved it...
Don't break into my house, Don't draw a weapon on me, Don't try to harm my family or friends, You'll only end up Pushing up Daisies


I Learned to handle firearms very young, I shot my first 12ga at five, my Father taught me along with all my brothers.
When my kids were young I taught them, Tradition, Protection, Safety, My Contitutional Right...

 

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/tp/Gun-Safety-Rules.htm
http://nssf.org/safety/basics/
http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

Every single one of these have been mentioned and addressed.
Surely practiced by all firearms owners here.

 

I'm sure that the owners here, yourself included, practice them to the best of their own abilities.
But no one is perfect.
Everyone slips up on occasion.
No amount of preaching it or beating them over the head about it is going to change things.
It's all part of being human.

 

"I do that by reminding myself, that this one of the very few TOOLS, who's only purpose is to kill."

Total bs. A gun is made to fire a projectile to hit a target. Ever hear of skeet shooting? IDPA competition? Isn't shooting an Olympic sport? I know it used to be.

More people are killed per year by cars. But you say the several million guns in the US were made only to kill.

Rock on Gloozit. Good luck with that trigger lock and finding your bullets in the dark if you ever do need it. I hope you don't.

 

"About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes." number of people killed in automobile accidents per day

Note back to post one in this thread where I mentioned safe storage of guns depending on who you live with...:cool


A little OT, but Gloozit, do you think guns are salient things?

"You can use it to target shoot, but it's soul purpose is to kill."

Or did you mean sole purpose?

 

LOL


roflmao

 

Fred:
I believe you meant "sentient", didn't you? rolleyes

 

:-D:-D Don't be so picky about a simple typo you... Wait...:-D:-D

" describes an angle that projects outward from a polygon" Yep, that is what I was thinking. Kinda. Sorta. :-D

 

Now we're talking about trajectory? :-D

 

Yes, both trajectory and potential trajectory should always be considered when handling a firearm. :-D

 

All I can say is this, I practice safe gun policies in my house and all people living in said house knows where my gun is, that it is LOADED 24/7 and it is off limits.....PERIOD. (that actually only applies to my son) My wife has her own gun as well & heck if I know where she keeps it, but that's her gun (and I'm pretty dang sure it's loaded too) I don't have any friends close by so I never have visitors other than my oldest son. All my friends are far from here but they all know I carry when I travel & as far I can recall, they all carry as well. Our closest friend is a 60 yr. old woman, she carries a Glock btw & has multiple guns. I really don't practice with targets anymore, don't see the need for it, I have guns to defend my family from the riff-raff that seem to be everywhere (and don't practice gun safety) Oh, and all the cops around here know I'm armed as well and I think they kinda like it cause they know my street is safe

 

Yo Sam.

That is precisely why the USA is safe from attack.
They would have rifles and shotguns aimed at them from every window.
Plenty of hunters and discharged veterans around.
Not to mention all the street gangs that would like nothing better than have a valid reason to pop a cap or two.

 

I keep comparing guns and cars to make a point. You say guns are unsafe. I say if used properly, they are perfectly safe. You can get killed in a car obeying all safety laws, and many more people are killed by cars than by accidental death by a gun.

The original reason a gun was made is not relevant.

 

Japanese Admiral Yamamoto said that attacking America was a stupid idea, because there would be a gun hiding behind every blade of grass.

And if we have 14 times the number of deaths/accidents/what have you's than other industrialized countries, don't forget to take into account population differences. Somewhere with 4.2 million people is naturally going to have 14 times the amount of anything than one with a mere three-hundred thousand.

I personally feel we get a little too enthusiastic about 'safety'. Somewhere, you have to draw the line between safety and functionality. Most gun rules suggest that it needs to be stored locked up, with a trigger lock unloaded, and separate from the ammunition. That's fine, if it's in a club, or somewhere you're not going to be using it.

If it's at home for self-defense? That's just going to see you killed and the gun eventually used to commit a crime. I'm willing to accept the consequences and responsibility for having the gun loaded and within reach, in exchange for the security it provides. I think the problem is perhaps that not everyone is willing to do that.

It has however been said that: You never need a gun, until you really need one.

 

^^ What he said. :-D

 

I ain't changin' nothing, I feel secure

 

Your intent has been plain throughout your posts, and in my opinion it was not just to promote “gun safety” overall. Your choice of words and stereotypical sayings give you away. You stated that handgun carry permits should not be allowed. You have the right to that position; however don’t try to hide your disdain for those of us who support the right to carry behind some kind of safety related agenda. I’m not buying it.

I have never understood the mind-set that passing laws to limit a private citizen’s right to carry a weapon is a panacea for all gun-related problems. I have served in the military, been a police officer, and routinely carry a handgun everywhere I go. You might argue that I have extensive training in firearms, and this is true – but I can tell you I am far more concerned with drunk drivers and criminals with guns then I am with any law abiding citizen who has a license to carry but may not have the level of training that I have. Firearm accidents are terrible, and preventable . . . but so is any other fatal accident. Accidental deaths due to firearms don’t even make the top 10 forms of accidental deaths, according to data on the CDC site.

Most accidents, by their very nature, are preventable. Gun safety, and safety in general, is a very, very important consideration. The vast majority of gun owners are very aware of that (as are the vast majority of motor vehicle owners of vehicle safety, for that matter). I am willing to believe you are concerned with gun safety . . . but you certainly have an odd way of espousing it.

 

Very first post by you, post 12, you state that you were against gun carry laws.

 

Not every one of the carriers fall onto the careless category.
Many are active or retired law enforcement officers or military.
Many have indeed been in combat situations and been shot at and been forced to return fire.
As such, they have the experience to recognize the proper time to reach or keep hands away.
Will concede the point that there are many that do not need to be carrying. The ones who get the permit for the feeling of power it gives or because it is the current "in" thing to do.

 

Interesting language you use Gloozit.

"Apparently there is just a bunch of good ole boys here that won't even consider looking at their practices. That ain't safe if you are going to argue that you're safe when you break any of those rules."

"I'm not against guns being used for protection, but I am against some careless damn fool getting a carry permit and thinking that he is invincible."

"It is not, buy a gun, take a little course, and now you have superman's cape."

Define 'good ole boy' please. And who here said they were superman? Damn fools? That is not very nice. Name calling often creeps in when you can't support your opinion. Not accusing you of anything.

 

OMG Now you're comparing modern times with the old west?!?!?!?! WOW, wonder if they had CCL's to carry those guns rolleyes

 

This is one of the ways I "practice", I keep informed

Link to full story



I recently saw a news article from Connecticut describing a rather remarkable shooting.

It got me thinking about how we should train our family members and friends to act in the event we have to draw a firearm for protection.

The article described a shooting that occurred in a convenience store. The store clerk (a concealed weapons permit holder) and his girlfriend were working behind the counter when two armed robbers entered the store. The robbers took cash from a customer standing in line and then one of them pointed his gun at the clerk.

The clerk thought he was going to be killed and saw an opportunity to act. Feigning compliance, he began to draw his pistol. As he was drawing, his girlfriend yelled out “Don’t do it! Don’t do it!”




Have you thought about what you would do if you were with a young child in a retail store that was being robbed?



Fortunately, the clerk didn’t fumble his draw. He was able to shoot at the robbers and drive them from the store just moments before the robbers were alerted by his well-meaning, but misguided girlfriend.

The type of untrained response that the clerk’s girlfriend exhibited is not uncommon. It is potentially life threatening, but can easily be prevented by discussing or role playing particular scenarios that you and your family members may experience.

Family members and friends should be taught to be alert to their surroundings and to pay attention to the directions of their armed companions. Put all other family or spousal dynamics aside—the person with the gun calls the shots! Everyone else obeys orders. There isn’t time to argue or have a discussion about the relative merits of each course of action. In the event of an emergency, the armed family member must take charge and everyone else should instantly obey the armed person’s orders.

Family members and friends should be instructed to remain silent and not disclose the fact that anyone is armed. Statements like, “Draw your gun and shoot him!” or “Don’t do it!” should obviously be avoided. Explaining the consequences of such actions (both of you getting shot) is likely to convince your family members to keep the fact that you are armed a secret.

I have instructed my family and friends that, should we be attacked, they are to remain quiet and do exactly what I tell them to do. My goal will be to get them to safety before I engage, if possible. If things happen too quickly for me to tell them what to do, I have instructed them to get as far away from me as possible once I draw my weapon.

Teach your family about cover (which materials protect them from bullets and which won’t). Should you have to draw your gun, instruct your friends and family to get away from you, get to cover, and call the police. Train them to give a description of you (gender/age/clothing) to police and tell them that you are a CCW permit holder. You don’t want to be mistakenly shot by responding officers!

Your companions also need to know not to leave their cover to approach your body if you are shot. For all they know, you could be playing dead in order to distract the attacker or get him to focus on something else. Having a family member leave cover to run up to your seemingly lifeless body will unnecessarily expose them to danger. It may be tough for your family to ignore the fact that you may be severely injured, but the most important thing they can do is to stay safe so that you do not have to worry about them as well.

Teaching these concepts to young children can be especially challenging. Younger children have problems obeying orders under the best conditions, let alone when they are panicked at the thought of their parents being killed.




Be prepared for your children to freeze under the effects of stress.



I would suggest that you start working with your children early. First, teach them about awareness. A friend of mine plays a game called I spy with his two young children. You’ve probably played the game yourself when you were younger. One person starts out by saying “I spy …” and gives a hint like, “something blue.” The other person has to guess what the original “spy” is looking at.

My friend modifies the game with his young kids so that only people (rather than objects) can be “spied.” He plays the game with them in public areas when his attention might be diverted to other tasks (like loading the groceries into the car or placing his youngest daughter in a car seat). In effect, he gets his children to be more aware of their surroundings and to serve as an extra set of eyes as he is busy completing his tasks. If his kids say, “I spy a man with a gun,” he knows he has to act!

Additionally, I would suggest that you develop a code word with your children. I like using the code word “emergency.” Train your kids that when mommy or daddy says the code word, nothing less than unquestioned obedience should follow. No fussing, arguing, or hesitation is allowed.

Practice some drills in public places using the code word and reward your children when they get it right. Practice by selectively yelling phrases like: “Emergency! Run to the car” or “Emergency! Get out of the house!” to get them in the habit of following orders immediately.

 

I love the comparison to the Old West. Why? Because the Old West had LESS gun crimes. You expected people to be armed, so you didn't want to try and rob them.

As for permits, remember: The definition of a criminal is someone who doesn't obey the law. Thus legislating does nothing to stop criminals. At all.

 

I am sorry Sam but your story is flawed in the fact that for a robbery it is only material possessions and nobody should be drawing down on the perpetrator.

If life is in danger be aware of your surroundings and any person who could be shot in a crossfire before you think about drawing a weapon.

Now you will probably say that in the heat of the moment you don't have time to think but that is the very training that is needed and not just pulling and shooting, Professionals are trained in this way and spend hours honing their skills so that the innocent bystander has less chance of being hurt or killed in such a situation.

 

Not really my story, just a website I follow (& I don't believe everything I read) here's another from the very same site

Full story


It was midnight. My wife and I were asleep when suddenly a noise that was loud enough woke me up.

I quickly turned to my right and felt for my Glock 17 on the night stand. As I pulled it out of the holster and pointed it toward our open bedroom door, my wife’s hand touched me and she whispered, “Ray, did you hear that?” I softly replied back, “Yes,” as I kept the muzzle of my Glock trained on our bedroom door. Although my adrenaline was pumping, I did remember to keep my finger off the trigger.

Both of us heard a board creek in the small hallway leading to the front door. This confirmed our suspicion that something had not accidently fallen from the wall. Someone had stepped on that spot that always popped. I quickly got out of bed, keeping my pistol pointed at the door. I reached for my small Surefire flashlight with the On button at its rear. I crouched down, hoping that if someone appeared in the doorway with a firearm he would have it pointed over my head.

The room was now bathed in total darkness. The only thing the intruder would see, if he appeared in the hallway, would be my Glock…

When I arrived at the doorway, I slowly inched to my right to see into the living room to view the beginning of the hallway to the left where the sound would have come from. We have a night light in that hallway and I saw nothing. To the right is a door leading into the kitchen. I held the flashlight high and hit the button for about a second to illuminate most of it. Nothing. I held the flashlight high because the intruder might understand that bullets will punch through walls. If he fired in my direction, hopefully he would think I was standing up and shoot high. I inched forward a little more so I could hit the button again and see into the dining room and most of the living room. Nothing.

I then went into prone position with my Glock pointed toward the hallway. The hallway led to the front door. Off to the right of that are the guest bedroom, a guest bathroom, and a small bedroom that I have made into my office. Perhaps the intruder had come through a window in my office, knocking something over which had awakened us?

We have a night light in our bedroom and one in the master bathroom. I turned the one off close to me. I whispered to my wife to turn off the other one. She quickly complied. The room was now bathed in total darkness. The only thing the intruder would see, if he appeared in the hallway, would be my Glock and a fraction of my head and left arm at the bottom of the doorway. I asked myself if I would shoot if someone appeared. My answer was, “yes.” I was ready to stop his threat.

 

I understand what you are saying but these sort of stories give credence to the idea that a gun will solve all problems.

I spent a great part of my life carrying arms and never once drew down on another human being who was not threatening my life.

Because of my training i still to this day scan a room when i enter and if possible sit at a table with my back to a wall,it's automatic.

A sergeant who i served with once said to me "anyone pulls a gun on me had better be ready to use it because if i get close enough to him i will first break his arm and then stick the gun up his ar$$".

This is just to illustrate the professional way of handling a situation where you would try to get close to the perpetrator and disarm him.

When this thread started it was about safety and the safest weapon is the one still in the holster.

 

Sorry Bill, but if someone breaks into my house, I ain't gonna ask them what their intentions are.

 

Bill, in the referenced article, a gun was pointed at the cashier. Depending on state laws, that is a justifiable shoot. In some states, you can defend your property with deadly force. Defending property is a bit iffy for me, but if someone comes in and points a gun... That would be different.

 

Bill, these are wise words: " the safest weapon is the one still in the holster."

If I am carrying my gun in public, I am watching and doing my best to avoid ANY type of confrontation. Even if I am robbed and have a reason to shoot someone, you can end up with a lot of legal hassle. Looks over at the controversial case in Florida...

I have heard it expressed like this. "The best way to win a gunfight is to avoid it."

But if someone kicks in my door at night, I think they have announced their intentions.

 

You make some good points. Training is always good. It seems this thread has morphed from basic gun safety, which was my intent, to concealed carry and training.

I have never taken a hunter safety course. Unless you consider all the time my Grandfather and Uncles pounded how to be safe into my head. I don't hunt anymore. Well, may go dove hunting this year.

And carrying a loaded shotgun around while hunting rabbits is a different thing than carrying a gun in a proper holster.

Threads drift. Part of the fun of being on a forum with such a diverse group of people. My intent of the thread was just basic gun safety. And note, in my first post, I mention proper storage of guns if you have kids and such. It then moved into home defense, CCL, and all kinds of safety stuff.

 

I fully agree with you. Dogs are a great alarm. A dog has not called to me since Fred died, so I am dogless. I live in an area where I could probably leave my door unlocked. I am more worried about places I go at work. The chances of me using a gun again to prevent a break in are extremely rare. I would rather have a gun and not need it, than need it and not have it. Plus, I love shooting them. (in a nice safe way at an NRA rule type safe gun range.)

An alarm and maybe some outdoor cameras are a possibility.

When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away. :-D (Why I keep the 1911 condition 1 on the nightstand.)

 

I live in what I consider a pretty safe neighborhood in a rural area, not a city. It's a small subdivision surrounded by farmland and empty acreage, I have dbl deadbolts on both doors as well as the doorknobs. The wife is an EXTREMELY light sleeper and doesn't drink (and she has her own gun). Like I've stated previously, I have my reasons for being armed (no I don't carry to go grocery shopping) & I will stay this way probably forever & pass my guns on to my kids.
I will have another dog, just not sure when

 

Don't think there are pheasants around here. But, only take the safety off when the gun is shouldered. Would most likely miss shots by not taking the safety off fast enough with the shotgun.

 

I carry at the local grocery store sometimes. Great way to see if I am printing. Telling someone their gun is showing is almost like telling someone their pants are unzipped around here. :-D

Gloozit, you would have been amused when I met the peeps from another gun forum in Dallas a few weeks ago. Some of them took two trips to unload guns from their cars onto the baggage dolly thing.