Has anyone heard about the "Fair Tax" proposal?

I'm not really sure what I think about this. I was wondering what everyone else's opinions on this are. This is the info I got which is obviously in favor of it. I was wondering how you think this would affect you overall. Would it increase or decrease the amount of taxes you pay? Would you adjust your buying habits if this was to pass?

 

so if I were to buy a $10,000 vehicle , $2300 of it would be tax? This will make the price of things outrageous I have a feeling. But would probably pass just on "All current forms of federal taxation would end. In other words, you would keep 100 percent of your paycheck. Your savings and investments would never be taxed." I think most people would hear that and forget the rest immediately.

 

Don't sweat it too much. It hasn't got the proverbial snowball in hell's chance of passing. Tax attorneys and tax specialists, tax accounting firms and all the many thousands of people that work for the Infernal Revenue Service will fight it hard. As will the liberals that base their campaigns on wanting to "tax the rich" more while giving unearned rebates to the poor. This puts ALL of these groups out of business.

In general, those with low incomes will hate it, as they are currently paying little to no federal income tax now, and many of them get "earned income credit" refunds for taxes they never paid. Disaster for them.

Folks in the middle to upper income brackets will generally like it, because right now, they're paying virtually ALL of the tax burden, and it will either be a wash, or to their benefit.

Most companies will love it, as it vastly simplifies their accounting, both for their own taxes and tracking and collecting the taxes from their employees, which reduces their costs, which overall boosts profitability, and can boost what they can afford to pay their workers.

Companies that will NOT love it are carmakers, companies involved in building new homes/buildings, or anything else that has a strong resale value. That new car takes the heavy tax hit, and the used car market automatically gets it's values boosted to compensate, since a lot more people will be looking at used cars rather than new. Same for houses. Who will want to buy a brand-new house?

There is one strong positive benefit from any direct sales tax to replace income tax. Roughly 1/3 of the entire American economy is "off the books". Drug trade, prostitution, bookies, smuggling, criminals of all kinds, contractors and independent workers that take jobs on the side and don't report the income, companies that manage to under-report what they earn, you name it. There are a LOT of ways to make money and not report it to Uncle Sam. All of these will start paying "their fair share" every time they go to spend any of it.

Hey Blues... that car? Uncle Sugar a ready takes that $2300.00 away from you. He just does it in a sneaky way that you generally don't notice. And for $10,000.00 you'd be looking at a used car, which would NOT be taxed.

 

Just from the information you've given me, I'm not sure how I feel...

If it's really as simple as the quote you gave us is, then I see a lot of problems in store for this idea..

But it's never as simple as it sounds, is it?

 

Since we're on the subject of taxes, here's a handful of quote on the subject, some old, some new. Enjoy.

"Government does not tax to get the money it needs; government always finds a need for the money it gets." --Ronald Reagan ++ "In general, the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other." --Voltaire ++ "Government cannot make man richer, but it can make him poorer." --Ludwig von Mises ++ "We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." --Winston Churchill ++ "Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery." --Calvin Coolidge ++ "The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." --Vladimir Lenin ++ "An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy; because there is a limit beyond which no institution and no property can bear taxation." --John Marshall ++ "If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine ++ "That most delicious of all privileges -- spending other people's money." --John Randolph of Roanoke ++ "To tax the community for the advantage of a class is not protection: it is plunder." --Benjamin Disraeli ++ "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." --Alan Greenspan ++ "A government which lays taxes on the people not required by urgent public necessity and sound public policy is not a protector of liberty, but an instrument of tyranny." --Calvin Coolidge ++ "Virtually everything is under federal control nowadays except the federal budget." --Herman E. Talmadge ++ "Before we give you billions more, we want to know what you've done with the trillion you've got." --Les Aspin ++ "The current tax code is a daily mugging." --Ronald Reagan ++ "The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin." --Mark Twain ++ "Income taxes have made more liars out of the American people than golf." --Will Rogers

 

I see you subscribe to the Federalist, also G.T.

As for all the illegal ways of getting around paying taxes, we should do away with all restrictions on drugs, that is anything that occurs naturally. Manufactured drugs will still have to be restricted. Just think how much the government would get from the sale of coke and marijuana.

 

Are you serious?

 

....I can see weed, if it was controlled like Alcohol is..

But cocaine is too dangerous to ever be legalized, in my opinion.

 

The Harrison Narcotic Act of 1914 was the first federal law requiring a doctor's prescription for certain drugs. Prior to that, it WAS legal. Over the counter at the local drug store. And drugs are a much bigger problem now than they were then. And are the fuel that funds the gangs that are wrecking the country.

I'm no fan of recreational drug use, heck, I don't even drink. But prohibition today doesn't work any better than alcohol prohibition worked in the 1920s & 30s. If people want it, they'll get it. Criminalizing it funds and builds criminal organizations to handle it. Mafia back then, drug gangs today. And today's gangs are a bigger local problem than the Mafia ever was. We've spent billions (maybe trillions?) on the War On Drugs, given up what used to be considered essential rights and freedoms, and we lost. Just as the old Prohibitionists lost. Sad, but true. Good intentions don't always generate good results.

For some people drug and alcohol use bring out the worst in human nature. Most compassionate people are in favor of saving those people from themselves. But saving the person requires changing the person, not just denying specific substances. Passing laws doesn't cure the person. At it's heart, it's a moral issue, not a substance issue. But government is incapable of dealing with morals, so they pass ever more restrictive laws. And when those don't work, they pass tougher laws, and when those don't work, ....

 

This is my problem. Your FEDERAL tax would end. But for those who live in a state that has income tax and/or a city that has income tax, that tax wouldn't end. Which means in addition to paying 23% tax on every purchase (which is a whole heck of a lot more than I'm currently paying), I would pay the State of Michigan income tax and the City of Grand Rapids, the City of Walker, and the City of Detroit (and often the City of Muskegon) income tax as well.

Doesn't look like "winning" to me.

 

So true, so true. Spoken as eloquently as I could ever put it. But the question becomes: How do we, as a government, deal with moral issues?

Many people follow some code of ethics, be it religion or otherwise, but what about the others?

 

I agree with G.T.


Prohibition = Cui Bono?

 

if they were ever to do something like this, they'd have to cut that in half to 11.5% tax. No tax on food or clothes either...ever. OR they'd have to put items in brackets like they have income brackets now and again, no tax on food or clothes. Want to buy a $100,000 car, then you can probably afford to pay X amount in taxes on it. That's the only way I could ever see anything like this ever coming close to working and even those two ideas wouldn't work well.

The people have to experience control , not just feel like they're in control. I'm tired of feeling sedated by verbose and overly complex fast-talk whilst the government bends me over and puts both hands on my shoulders as if to comfort me for what's about to happen next. This is the kind of stuff that revolutions are made of.

 

As usual, what GT said. Our country is running on a lot of "Services" that provide either nothing at all, or something so intangible we don't really benefit. Think about it. We pay taxes. The IRS takes our money, and some of that money they take goes to pay for the "service" they provide, which is the "service of taking our money". On a smaller more local scale, we pay parking tickets. Part of that money pays for the "service" provided by the meter-maid, which is the "service of giving out parking tickets". Same goes for the above mentioned attorneys, specialists, and firms that really only provide information, or a service of filling out all the forms that tell us how much money we are losing. You can't eat a service, you can't wear a service, and you can't live in a service. Services are a luxury, not a necessity, and we are a country built on services and entertainment. At least with entertainment, we make the choice of paying and we get to choose our entertainment.

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That's what we said in the UK but it has been at 17.5% on all new goods except food (unless dining out) and kids' clothes for as long as I can remember. It makes the cost of living way higher.

But once you have a new product tax you wouldn't be able to afford a new rig anyway Even if you could, with tax on gas increased too (oh yes they will!), even if you bought the rig you couldn't afford the gas for it!

 

here's to praying that Fuel Cells emerge at full bore within the next 3 years.

 

How do we, or how should we? What we DO as a government is minimalize and shut out moral concerns and considerations from as many facets of public life as possible. We ignore the difficult and uncomfortable task of even defining what is moral (too judgemental! not the government's responsibility!). From schools to media to public meetings, the moral voices in society are mostly excluded. We marginalize, trivialize and ostracise those with a moral message because we don't want to hear it or be bothered with it, because for most of us, it would make US uncomfortable in some area or other. There is very little the government can do to actually boost morals, but there is a lot they can do to remove and discourage them. We've mostly been doing the latter. Strong movements to strengthen and encourage moral life are virtually always religious/spiritual movements, but God has become a dirty word in our society. We don't WANT any rules.

Regardless of what the majority thinks or does, there are always a few that refuse to accept society's values. But most people go along with "what everybody thinks", even if they don't personally buy into the religious foundation that supports a moral life. IF there is real pressure from society to behave. We used to live in a shame based society where people actually condemned, verbally, irresponsible behavior, and irresponsible people were made to fee shame for their stupidity. Shame and condemnation are too harsh for us today... too "mean spirited". Today we have a guilt society, where everybody freely admits what they do wrong, but don't feel any remorse or "shame" for it. They shrug it off and claim it's their right to be stupid. There is no pressure to conform to reasonable personal standards.

I see little hope in turning society back. As long as we idolize drug-using musicians and actors, give a pass to drug using atletic "heroes" (they're NOT), pretend that drug use is cool, idolize rap "artists" that not only glorify the seamy side of humanity but are often members of the very gangs that are pushing the drugs and killing people over it, and refuse to stand up and call a problem a problem, there will be no pressure on anybody to improve anything.

The most effective drug rehab, and criminal rehab for that matter, programs out there are the Christian-based programs that work on changing the PERSON. About an 80% long-term success rate, which is hugely more successful than any other programs out there. But society at large doesn't want another "Christian Revival" right now. We've had them in the past. Maybe we'll all eventually get so fed up with the problems in our society we'll actually accept another one, but God only knows when that might happen.

 

Whether we stay with the current tax system or try a different one, we're dealing with the symptoms, not the problem. The problem is that we spend too much money, and have for many years. There is nothing in this proposal that even addresses that problem.

 

I say Throw all the tea in the in the harbor waters.

 

It's only fair if it keeps more money in my pocket which it won't If the government has anything to do with it

 

They've played with the so-called "Fair Tax" concept in many countries, including Australia. They called it "Flat Tax"' here. Trouble is, Fair Tax aint exactly fair. As G.T. said, it penalises the low incomes and those on Social Services, because they are basically paying the high income earners and wealthy's tax bill for them.

And before any of you think, "Social Services, who cares! That doesn't effect me". It will sooner or later. Or do you think that you, or no member of your family is ever going to get sick, have an accident, become unemployed, or grow old.

A flat, across the board tax, with little or no Federal or State tax, only has a chance of working if it is VERY low. Like about 5%, or such-like, in which case it wouldn't be sufficient for the Govt. anyway.

They've introduced G.S.T. (Goods and Services) Tax here, which is currently at 10%, supposedly for all these "you beaut" tax cuts we were supposed to have. But, guess what? Taxes and gas prices are at an all-time high. The Govt. is raking in record revenues and the average citizen is footing the bill, as per usual. The U.K. and other places with their V.A.T. tax are even worse off.

So best "look before you leap", i.m.o. Once it's in place, you aint gonna get rid of it, that's for sure.

 

At the end of the day, it's not about reducing taxes and giving everyone a fair deal. It's about the Govt. needing to find ever increasing funds to finance bad economics and costly political decisions.

"Not a Snowballs chance in Hell of Passing"

You gotta be kidding. The Govt. and the Tax Depts. will love it. Oh, don't get me wrong, they won't abolish or significantly reduce regular taxes or anything like that. You will just be paying G.S.T., V.A.T., or whatever they call it, addition to your taxes. How do I know? Because they've already done it in that my country (well, the one I live in), as well as many others.