Hello I need some help and direction

Hi there,

With the release of the Raspberry Pi and the fact that its going to be using Linux of some flavour. I have never used Linux, I think that I have allways been a little scared of it :confused

But I have a strong intention to get hold off one of these Pi's and to help get my newphew, who's 10, involved in comuters and computing beyond the control pad of his console.

As there are some big waiting lists to get a Pi i thought my first job would be to get to grips with linux and find out what kind of things I can do on it, and why it is used by some people in prefferance to Windows.

Ok, so my plan is this I have a Dell Laptop that i dont use, as it came with vista and only 1gb of memory and has never run very well. So Im happy to wipe it clean and install Linux on it. However I have no idea how to go about this or what flavour of Linux to use. I believe the Pi is using the Debian one so it may be prudent to use the same one.

I guess my first project will be just to get the Laptop working in a stable way with Linux. If someone could point me to some kind of guide which goes through this step by step. I assume that i will need to make a list of all the hardwear that the laptop has in it.

My second project will be getting to grips with Python, which is the language of choice for the Pi but thats something for another forum.

Once I am comfortable with all of this ill need to find some project for my nephew and I to do, so if anyone can think of any sites or books that are pitched to this level then that would be great.

Thanks in advance as allways for your help in this
Brian Moran.

 

it doesn't matter (in my opinion) which linux distro you choose to arm yourself with,

they all do roughly the same and have the same base commands,

but - and everyone likes buts - specific distributions do some things different than others,
for instance debian, its free software, so not a lot of proprietary stuff (non-free, closed source),
others such as mandriva come with proprietary software, but has certain restricted packages due to local laws around the world,
others have no restrictions at all

as for a dell laptop,
my little alien (she's 9) has a dell laptop with only 512mb ram and pclinuxos installed,
she does her homework, drawing, painting and youtube-ing it,

she uses tuxpaint and openoffice for kids (ooo4k)

http://tuxpaint.org/

http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page

both in the pclos repositories

for her its perfect and as its linux you can create another user and do the adult linux learning stuff (although i do all mine on my main machine)

the only problem i had with pclos was connecting wirelessly, i had to assign a static ip for the laptop and associate it with its mac address in my router - otherwise it refused to connect,

http://www.pclinuxos.com/?page_id=180

pclos is a live cd, you download the iso and burn it to cd,
make sure your lappy is set to boot cd/dvd first and boot the lappy with the cd in,
a couple of minutes later you should be at the desktop so you can check whether all your hardware works,

the login password is guest for the guest session and root for the root session,

when you shutdown the system nothing should have changed as the live cd is running in your ram and not using your hdd,

and as for finding out what you can't do with linux,
ermmm...hmmm....ah...nope,
can't think of anything at the moment apart from most games - but there are still loads of games for linux, then there are emulators, etc

oh, most distro's come with a live cd and most are free,
so if you don't like one then try another, install one then install another, till you are happy

 

i believe it comes pre-installed with either fedora or debian,

or at least thats what all the news is saying over here

 

plodr is correct. the Pi is a barebones board with no system, per se; you must install your system of choice. I just got my monthly LinuxFormat mag and there's a nice article about the Pi in this month's issue. according to the article, Debian, Fedora, and Arch are currently supported. other distros are likely forthcoming, but they'll need to support ARM 11(?) architecture. The Raspberry Pi page also has pre-compiled "appliance" downloads available. There's even an XBMC HTPC package that looks extremely interesting, including HD video codec abilities!

Also, while I agree with Hawk that, in theory, your choice of Linux shouldn't matter; in reality, I remember being a newbie. For purposes of "getting acclimated" to the Linux ecosystem, I can understand wanting to see a consistent interface, or system, while you're coming to grips with things.

With that said, Arch is a wonderful distro, but it isn't really for newbies, so you're left with Debian and Fedora. Debian has a "rolling" release schedule that is kind of nice for newbies, whereas Fedora releases a new version every 6 months, no matter what. Newbie advantage...Debian, IMO. Conversely, Fedora uses the Gnome3 desktop, which is the latest and greatest Gnome desktop that most Gnome distros are moving to, if they haven't already; whereas Debian is still using Gnome2 and must complete the Gnome3 transition in the future. Newbie advantage....Fedora.

If "visual compatibility" and "familiarity" with Raspberry Pi is your criteria, you really can't go wrong with either choice of Debian vs. Fedora. It really is a matter of personal preference. My suggestion would be to check out the Raspberry Pi website and see if anything jumps out that tips the scales in either direction. If nothing, follow Hawks instructions below to download ISO images and create LiveCDs of Debian and Fedora operating systems. Play with those LiveCDs and see which "works better" with your older laptop hardware. Again, all things being equal, go with the one that strikes your fancy! For a newbie, it really is that simple! Good luck with you and your nephew's project, and kudos for the "bonding" idea!!!

 

my apologies to all :-o,

it seems you have to install the o/s yourself, although there are pre-configured sd cards on (or will be on) offer

 

no apologies are required hawk! you're head is swimming with so much good linux knowledge, it's perfectly understandable you wouldn't know this ONE thing! personally, I'm willing to overlook this and let it slide...

 

Thanks for the information on this.

Ive orderd this months, and last months copies of linux format, this month for the Pi and last months as it has a begginer guide to linux in it.

From what people have said looks like its going to be a lot easyer than i thought it would be to get running with this so im going to look around at the various flavours of Linux and find one that i like for the Laptop.

Get used to it there and see where i can go on from.

No doubt in a week or so (depending on when the mags come through) there will be another post saying help help my laptop is on fire

Take care and thanks again.
Brian.

 

A "Live Stick" is an excellent suggestion, especially if Windows is the only OS on the machine. A LiveCD typically has a lag that makes Linux seem a little sluggish, as a cd/dvd drive is slower than the hardware itself. A USB stick will perform almost as good as an installed Linux OS; persistent storage would be a bonus and makes for an EXCELLENT way to do online banking, etc... or just take your favorite OS with you on vacation, etc...

 

Ok,

Ive made a live stick with "Linux Mint 12 "Lisa" - DVD (32-bit)" on its booted up fine and has found the laptops bluetooth and wireless but states that the firmware is missing on the wireless.

There is this icon on wich states "Restricted drivers available"

Is this something to do with the live stick, or something else?

Either way, some help would be great.

Thanks
Brian.

 

Hmm,

Tried with a different type of linux Fedora 16 and got the same issue.

Its a dell Vostro 1015 that im using.

So its the Wireless in it thats not working says firmware missing.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.

 

Linux Mint is an EXCELLENT choice for a newbie's 1st distro. Matter of fact, it's the one I typically recommend to "Window migrators", due to the visual similarities and behaviors of what users did on Windows.

Sounds like you've done everything right so far. "Restricted drivers available" just means your hardware was detected, but an open-source Linux driver isn't available; you must download a proprietary driver from the manufacturer. Believe it or not, some folks believe in the morality of open-source software to the extent that they'd rather "roll their own" driver than install a proprietary one. As a newbie, you can't afford that luxury yet, but you can certainly make that choice once your Linux skills support it.

First of all, I've always had much less frustration with wireless if you "Live boot" or install with an ethernet connection. This circumvents the chicken & egg proposition where you need a wireless driver, but you can't get it without your wireless connection. Boot (or install) with ethernet connection; your wireless hardware will still be detected and your "restricted driver available" icon will still appear, but now you'll be able to get that driver with your ethernet connection. Clicking on the "Restricted drivers available" icon will either download the proprietary driver for you, or take you to the link to download it directly. However, recognize that you are booting from a "Live stick" and will lose any information/changes you make in a Live session, because it isn't permanent, so don't freak out if a change disappears. You will have to do this EVERY TIME you "live boot", until such time as you install the OS on your system. Once Mint is permanently installed, and proprietary driver is downloaded and installed, and your wireless is working, you can unplug ethernet and never have to deal with it again.

Looking at your next post, same with Fedora. I don't know much about Fedora, but your Fedora issue & Mint issue are both "Live stick" related. Carry on...

 

You do not have to download them from the manufacturer, you simply download them from the LinuxMint12 Repositories. Restricted means the files are not completely opensource. Click on the icon and it will ask for password, you then click to confirm installation.

count_zero99uk the Dell Vostro 1015 is Ubuntu certified, meaning the drivers should be easy.

In fact on the Linux Mint Blog, one user said the Vostro 1015 ran out of the box.

If you want Fedora, hawklord has expertise in that realm. Still not difficult.

 

concerning fedora,

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items#Proprietary_Kernel_Drivers

fedora is one of those distro's that does not have restricted software, so some things will not work without a bit of 'do it yourself',

i'll help where i can though

 

Hi again,

Yeah I made the live stick of the Mint Distro again and launched from that hooked it up with an ethernet cable and it sorted that out .

So the next step is to install the thing fully .

I take it the USB stick install wipes the entire PC and installs Linux over it.

Ok anyway once its in where do i start?

As stated im wanting to learn python, and to be honest C++ i found a good book in the library for that but im not sure where to begin.

From what i recall C++ requires an IDE to compile the code. The book i have suggests the DEV-C++ environment with a link to an EXE but i think that is the windows version, i take it for linux id need a different compiler.

And i have no idea where to start with Python.:-o

Also is there anything else that woudl be good for me to use.

On the other side of the project im wanting things that i can get my nephew to do, hes 10, so any good stuff for kids would be excelent.

Thanks again
Brian.

 

count_zero99uk, LM12 will nudge Windows and install on the open available space behind it on the drive. At boot you can choose from either windows or Linux. Make sure you have burned the Dell recovery discs incase you want to go back.

Python developers can be found at the Linux Forums, depending on what distro you install.

 

Good for you Count...making some serious progress so early in the process.

If you're confident in your Mint selection, the next step would be an install (otherwise, keep creating LiveSticks until you find one you like; as I said before, though, Mint is excellent for newbies!). To answer your question succinctly, the install CAN overwrite your Windows OS if you want it to, or it can "carve out" a partition for itself and create a "dual-boot" scenario where you choose the OS you wish to use each time you boot! If you're Windows is buggered up, or you can't stand Windows, AND you have a Windows install/recovery CD AND you have around 8GB-10GB of available HD, go ahead and overwrite it; otherwise, I highly recommend the dual-boot option. Dual-booting still provides the easiest path to revert back to Windows, or to completely wipe Windows in favor of a full Linux installation. Either way, before you install, I'd recommend a little housecleaning in preparation.

Most importantly, BACK UP all your data files to an external drive. Assuming dual-boot option, once all data is safely duplicated, I'd also HIGHLY recommend using CCleaner (freeware available here on MG website) to clean up registry entries, data caches, etc... that may reside on the far reaches of your HDD and could possibly be overwritten. Follow that up with Defraggler (also freeware available here on MG) to defrag your system. With those 3 tasks completed, I'd say you're ready for a full install. If you're wiping Windows from the system and replacing with Linux, step 1 (data backup) is all that's required.

Live boot your USB stick, as before, with ethernet connection. Choose the "Install OS" icon and answer presented questions in order to setup your system (i.e. keyboard layout, time zone location, etc...); it's very intuitive and comprehensive. You will have the opportunity to go back and change your answers/selections until you see a warning screen to the effect of "all selections will be written to disk upon going forward. please go back to change your selections, or go forward to write your selections to disk."

The only potential trip up will involve disk partitioning when the installer notifies you that "an existing OS has been detected" and asks questions whether you want to "overwrite disk, using entire disk for Mint" or "install Mint side-by-side with existing OS, choosing from either at boot." I highly recommend the dual-boot, and the install disk seems tailored for dual-boot selectors. A related selection of partitioning will involve a "swap" partition, or an area of HDD to be utilized as RAM when your RAM is fully maxed. A good rule of thumb is that "swap" should be 2x your existing RAM, but not exceeding 2GB. For instance 512MB RAM should be accompanied by 1GB swap; 1GB RAM with 2GB swap; 2GB RAM with 2GB swap (in excess of 2GB swap would generally be considered excessive). With dual-boot versus overwrite selection, and size of swap selections behind you, the rest is smooth sailing!

Once installed, reboot (Linux will be at the top of the selection list, it will default to this selection unless you arrow down to another selection), and verify your install is behaving appropriately. Update your system (the "how to" will become apparent upon your exploration of the Mint OS - I could tell ya, but this info is easily acquired if you just play with it). Also verify the existence of a disk that looks something like "23GB File System." THIS IS YOUR WINDOWS PARTITION, and the "XGB" designation will be dictated by the size of your Windows OS (mine is 52GB File System). And YES, you can access your Windows data from within Linux! Simply click on that disk directory (XGB File System) and drill down through the Documents & Settings/My Document directory and see if that doesn't look familiar! I would recommend copying the entire My Documents directory and pasting into the /Home directory of Mint. From there, you can separate Music, Photos, Videos, etc... into their appropriate folders. Congrats, you're DONE, enjoy your new system!!!

For future reference, I'd also highly recommend a LiveCD/stick called GPartEd. It will come in very handy if you decide to revert to Windows (not likely!) or to expand Linux to overwrite Windows.

Lastly, not sure I'll be much help with programming. Interested in that myself, but haven't gotten very far due to time constraints. I do know that Python is an excellent beginner language; their website has excellent tutorials, projects, etc... and a PDF for kid's to learn. My kids enjoyed it, but not enough to stick with it. The recommended IDE for Python is ERIC and it's in the Mint software repositories.

I was interested in Java and Android programming, and the recommended IDE for Java is Eclipse. But I also wanted to follow along with my kids in their Python projects, so I ended up using the IDE Netbeans, which has a plugin system for different modules. You're not looking at some archaic arcane programming language, so I have to believe that plugins exist for those languages also. That's all I got with respect to programming. Try it out, tinker, play, mess it up, start over...the guys here on MG seem to always have an answer about Linux issues. Welcome!!!

 

P.S. to Hawk...perhaps this would be an appropriate post in your Linux Tutorial thread? An "Installation of Debian-based distro" tutorial? Perhaps more folks would be less afraid to try if they knew how EASY and REVERSIBLE it truly is? Your thread, your call buddy....

 

Thanks for the information Heddon.

As for the kind of install it will be a total wipe.

A bit of background - About 4 years back i was going to start with the Open University and as i was suffering from severe deppresion I qualified for the Disabled Students Allowance. What this provided me with was a laptop and a bundle of softwear Vista, Office, some talk typing softwear, soem mindmapping softwear all this stuff sounds great dosnt it.

However the machine only had 1gb of ram. So it barely ran Vista on its own and concidering that i needed to have office, the pdf reader, the text/speach softwear and the other stuff at the same time let me say ive heard of faster geological eras

Dont get me wrong - the OU and there DSA team are fantastic, i think they were just sold a duff contact with regards to supplying PC's and with Vista out there at the time what else was I going to do - demand something free with XP?

Anyway time moves on and the laptop has been sat gathering dust - I have moved on from the OU i just couldnt cope with the deadlines and such with my illness so i try and get myself other projects that i can do for myself. Hence this. Im doing much better now, but still have very dark days at times.

Anyway just thought id share with the group

Take care and thanks again.
Ill be installing later tonight - need the lightening to make the machine work.

Brian.

 

go for it, its free for anyone :-D

 

count_zero99uk - are you from over here in blighty ?

if you are then an idea is maybe to contact a local LUG (linux user group),

there's one here in manchester i've been meaning to visit

 

Manchester Im over the hills in Huddersfield (were near leeds if youve not heard of us)

 

Well Mint is now installed and updated.

All seems to be working well.

It feels a little hot around the laptop, im not sure if thats an issue with the lap top having not used it much before - so is there someway of monitoring temps?

Anyway im putting it to one side now and will come back to it fresh tommorow. Ive allready spilled one cup of coffee on my desk tonight.

Take care and thanks again for the pointers.
Brian.

 

hehe - only 20 mins away,

ok, there's an app called lm-sensors that can be of help,

it should be in your software manager

http://www.lm-sensors.org/

 

kudos hawklord

Lm-sensors is in the Linuxmint repo

I use Synaptic instead of the software center.

Code:

sudo apt-get install synaptic

sudo apt-get install lm-sensors

The laptop being hot may mean it needs the dust blown out of it, and my Dell C620 (I think that is the #) always ran hot.

I ran XFCE on my laptop instead of Gnome, and migrated the laptop to crunchbanglinux. I installed LinuxMint12 Debian on my HP a few weeks ago, and hate Cinnamon as much as Unity. I have 64 Bit LMDE on Ursa, but am going back down to 32 bit when I force myself to take the time.

Most important, I share the name Brian! :-D

 

Why don't you start with preface and then, as you get a hold of it, continue to page 1 ? :-D

JK!

X:/ Undo last massage */*fomat.exe



Wrenchman