Iran Could Produce Nuclear Bomb in 16 Days

Yeh I agree that money will have played a part,I suppose its up for arguement how much of a part it played,in the cold light of day I'm sure we can agree it isnt motive enough to give a terrorist state this tech,but we aint broke,I'll have to do some research as to how much money was involved,the Bushehr plantcost $800 so its a fair chunk of change

That said America and Isreal for that matter should been able to broker some kind of deal with Russia to stop the transaction going through,its not like in the past we havnt been able to finacially help out lesser nations who we feel may be putting us in danger or at a tactical disadvantage

If I'm at camp David having a meeting with Putin and he says "I'm thinking of selling Iran nuclear technology because we're a little broke,they wont use for weapons the nuclear watchdog and UN will make sure of that" I would have laughed in his face,the latest example of the UN controlling WMD worked out great in Iraq,we had to invade "again to remove the weapons we gave to him" and Saddam was nice guy compared to this one

There were so many other roads to take before we got to this position of taking military action against Iran,'which will probably end up costing twice as much as any money Russia made,in lives and resources'

Isreal and America should have been screaming so hard at Russia not do it when thay first announced it,not when Iran already has part of the tech,even now Iran has the capability to fire a dirty weapon into the heart of Isreal that will be capable of killing tens of thousands of people for generations to come,this alone gives Isreal reason to launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran how could Russia not of known this would have happend?They couldnt it was inevitable,even if Iran continued with the inspections they still have the 3.5% pure uranium that can be used in a dirty bomb

Now everyone will get what they want Russia has made a packet of money without giving Iran a weapon that could do some real damage,Isreal will be able to rid itself of the Iranian threat,America can force regime change to stop the spread of anti americanist feeling in the middle east as well as controlling the borders which will quell the insurgency and they all can split the second largest gas reserve in the world between them,Sweet!

 

It gets worse.

Gerald Ford offered Iran the technology when they were buddies if memory serves me.

The US government really need to address the absurd hypocrisy in it's affairs before the rest of the world will take it seriously and support it.

Not to mention they just recently agreed to help India, were the main suppliers of technology to Israel, and turn a blind eye to Pakistan.

These three countries won't sign the Non Proliferation Treaty.


You can't have a rule that only applies to certain countries and not to others, and then change when it suits you.

 

The US isn't alone in that department...

...nor that one.

 

Maybe, but that doesn't make it right.

The US has more money, power and influence than the others put together.

What ever they do has a much more profound impact that what others do.


Anyway, they are the ones whining now.

They've learnt nothing from Iraq.

 

Yep. In other words, they don't have a clue and are hypothesising.

What ifs aren't fact. Nor is conjecture. Iraq is proof of that.

 

For that matter, we've learned nothing since World War 2...Korea, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, etc. Most every nation's government has a history of diplomatic failures over time, when one chooses to be the agressor rather than the target, the spotlight tends to be more instense. Our previous administration, revered by so many, is much the author of the current predicament in the middle east, due to conflicts of either getting blown or blown up.

 

There's plenty of hard evidence; just because Fox News can't get it doesn't mean it isn't out there.

 

Yeh I'v been reading quite a few peices on the "very" complex relationship Iran has had with the rest of the world,it isnt just Russia to blame Iran has bought lots of technology from the west,Pakistan,North korea,China including,cenrifuges,light water,heavy water,its been going on for a long time,it was wrong of me to over simplify to just Russia,but it is Russia who from 1995 to present day has had 1,500 Western trained Russian scientists working in Iran at the Bushehr plant and the one who has sold the main reactor and also has future plans to setup 10 more nuclear power stations

The more I read into it the more complex it becomes for example,russia has sold Iran its anti aircraft and anti missile protection to protect the sites from attack,its heavily involved in selling arms to Iran one number I saw recently was conventional weapons sales to Iran has netted Russia over 4 billion dollars

I'm starting to get really depressed now as I read of Russia's and chinas determination to block sanctions layed on Iran,as a few experts have quoted unless the sanctions are all incompassing it wont effect Iran in the least,just make the non participating countries richer

Theres also Americas known belief unless it can control tehran,peace in afghanistan and iraq will be elusive,it really does have all the hallmarks of the beginning of world war 3

 

For anyone interested in the enrichment process I'v just found these two documents which are pretty good,I like the companies slogan "enriching the future"

http://www.urenco.com/im/uploaded/1086886998.pdf

http://www.urenco.com/im/uploaded/1086887106.pdf

From

http://www.urenco.com/index.php?id=194&cid=304&gcid=314&pagename=Centrifuge+Cascade

If the Iranian claims are true of a 164 centrifuge cascade,this picture gives an idea of how far away they from building a bomb,pretty far IMO

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/Rikky_/cascade.jpg

 

Diplomatic failures?

You call supporting the worlds worst tyrants for decades, aiding and abetting their atrocities, then when it doesn't suit you, changing your stance as "diplomatic failures"? Try telling the victims relatives it was a "diplomatic failure".

Where's the diplomacy in supporting General Pinochet, Saddam, President Soharto, who are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people?

Show me where?

The UN and IAEA can't find it.

That doesn't mean it's not there or I support Iran, quite the opposite, but the experts can't find proof.

They can't even find it in Iraq, a country they have occupied for 5 yrs! (yet kept promising the rest of the world it existed)

 

Star I don't think the accurate time table is anywhere near 16 days... Israel would have attacked Iran by now if they were within a matter of days of acquiring a nuclear warhead....

Also, if it were that close, the UN would be in a much more dire state of affairs concerning Iran's uranium enrichment.....

You'd think the U.S. officials' estimate would be as conservative as possible regarding Iran's capabilities.... If they say more like 3 years, I'm more inclined to believe that's the more accurate assessment given these particular circumstances....

 

Israel can't do anything about it, this time. Iran learned from Iraq's mistakes. It has spread its nuclear facilities out, and bunkered most of them underground. A surgical surprise attack isn't going to cripple Iran's nuclear ambitions the way it did Iraq's.

I have no idea how long it will be before Iran gets the bomb, and a suitable method of delivery, but when it does, if the same crowd are in charge, whoever runs that nuclear armageddon clock better get the ladder ready.

Because MAD doesn't work if you want to die.

 

You don't think those leaders came to us and announced we want billions to mass-murder, right? You think they probably, um, like lied, took our dough, thumbed their noses at us, and locked and loaded? One government lying to another for the sake of money? No new ground broken there.

Didn't you and me go down this road a few months ago, and basically because I'm in a position to know and not tell, you had a problem with my credibility?

IMO, neither of those organizations could find a hippo in an icebox.

 

The point is that these mass murderers wouldn't have existed as long or as powerful if the US didn't back them up.

That makes them an accomplice.

That was about Iraq, not Iran.

So you're saying you have the proof, or know of it, yet the UN and IAEA don't?

Sorry, I don't buy it. Show me the proof and I'll gladly accept your position, but it won't be on "trust me, I know but can't say".

They were right about Iraq.

If you say the US government has proof, it's been 5 yrs, what are they waiting for?

They didn't have a problem making it up as they went along, yet I'm supposed to believe that they really know but can't say?

 

Moving along...

Here's your propaganda machine at full throttle

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=42049&NewsKind=Current Affairs

 

I'm curious, what makes you think I support Iran or any form of propaganda?

 

I was a bit rushed when I responded earlier today, the term "here's your" was meant as a generalization, not a possessive, so it's not directed at you.

 

This article by john pilger a well repected UK collumn writer for the new statesman highlights just a few of the hidden agendas and hypocracy in western governments foreign policies and reasons they want control of Iran,this story was on the front cover

http://www.johnpilger.com/print/133526

IMHO the culmination of largest theft in human history is about to take place in Iran right in front of our eyes and when its happened we will all cheer for making the world a safer place

 

Read this article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/16/do1609.xml

 

Sibeer all that is hypethetical crap ,I did a little research on the author Amir Taheri he's an author of ten books and works for

A public relations firm,who are they working for then?If you check out the articles on the site,I havnt read them all but they all support the US governments position and are aimed at making you believe everything is going to plan in Iraq and afghanistan ect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benador_Associates

From wikipedia

NEOCONSERVATIVE,those are the guys in power in your country by the way,they also dwell in washington and Newyork

only teasing m8

 

How come his article is HC, and yours isn't?
I've read neither, having heard all the arguments anyway. I think it's all HC, until it's too late.

 

Much the same here. Whatever happens in Iran, whenever, most experts expect eventually we'll get hit. Just a matter of who and when. (shrug) Whoever is in power any given year will do their best (I hope) to stay on top of what plots are percolating, and do their best to thwart them. And whoever doesn't like whoever is in power will loudly criticize and second-guess whatever they do, usually with less than full information or understanding since much relevant information NEVER gets released to the public. That's just the way the world works.

 

The time frame may be crap, but like they say, they're very patient.

Our government is actually NeoConservative wannabe. They're a minority, so they gotta tow the line in a liberal country.

 

hey, its not just 'the arabs' that do that, the air force base in the closest town to me has a bunker built directly below a housing estate. ('he who casts the first stone....')

anyway, ooh yeah, nuke them, thats going to solve the issue. I think any nation that's threatened by a nation with nukes has MORE justification to build nukes, not less. They get to use self protection as an excuse now, too anyone contemplating such a disgusting option as nuclear war better examine their motives. Conventional bombing would work, so why nuke? All youre doing is radicalisng anti - american opinon in 'young Iran' which is more modern and secular then those old buggers who think fundementalism of religion is an adequate way to govern a country

 

all of you interested in the subject of Iran should read

Countdown to Crisis by Kenneth Timmerman.... I linked to it in my post on Terrorism Readings....

Great book... really puts things into perspective and gives you a history of how Iran has gotten to where it's at today, in terms of their nuclear ambitions and why they've grown so bold and defiant....

 

Bad wording on my part of course its all hypothetical ,but the source of these articles must be looked into,if you can clearly see bias point of view as in the article sibeer posted it no longer becomes objective journalism and cannot be trusted

I agree America has bombed over 50 countries since the end of the second world war its bound to get hit sooner or later,you just cant do that to so many people and not have someone hate you,invading and bombing more countries to stop being attacked only inflames the situation,

The west 'US and UK and those other ones ' are currently engaged in two wars in afghanistan and Iraq,these two wars almost totally surround Iran,they are being threatened daily by american and Isreali attack,think about it given the track record of US invading middle eastern countries would you want a nuke to protect yourself,its sure working for 'ol' kimmy in north korea,this would be desatrous for the US as they would no longer have any way to threaten Iran into falling in line

The Iranians dont hate the west because of freedom,democracy or because we're infidel or whatever,its quite simply because of Americas 'jimmy carters' support of saddam hussien in the Iran,Iraq war a war with estimated casualties of one million,he was having a dispute with the current iranian governement and wanted the shah toppled which he managed 'which created the current regieme in Iran' and the support of Isreal in the occupation of palestine

The West has been playing God in this region for decades,for one reason only Oil!,the current oil tycoons in Washington,want control of Irans oil its the last great goldmine on the planet,they will spin it any way they can to give reason to invade and take control

From being a kid I always thought the people who would consider using a pre-emptive nuclear strike would be tyranical enemies of the West,I guess I was wrong

P.s Its almost impossible to get planning permission the build a bunker over here,anyone got one considering making one,not that it'll make much difference

 

Iran is really going to annoy the US when it soon changes over to the Euro instead of the US Dollar for it's oil, gas and petroleum exports.

That could eventually mean the US Dollar is no longer the dominant currency and have a huge impact on the US economy which is already in debt.

 

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/usabmb.html

 

My bad,my point still stands though whenever you stick your oar in other people business whatever your intentions you get burned

 

No wonder they're so accurate. Look at all the practise they've had.


And it's not just the US. UK, Australia, Canada etc were also involved in most if not all.

 

Bwaaaahhhhh

 

You don't need any oars to get burned by Islamic radicals Rikky. What did the Philipines or Malaysia do to the Arabs to rate their ongoing guerrilla warfare? We tend to see everything as related to US, but the violent expansion is going on in a lot of places that never did anything in or to the Middle east. Get over the oil fixation. If that was it, we'd have owned Iraq's oil since the first Gulf War. We don't and we won't. Critics were screaming that way back then.

True, they don't like us because we fight them. But they wouldn't like us any better if we stayed home and stared at our navels. They don't like ANYBODY that isn't just like them, and they intend to make everybody just like them. We, and Europe, are the most successful group of "not-like-them", and they hate us for being more successful, more affluent, and more of an attraction for those they're trying to convert. They HATE freedom, religious or otherwise, they hate capitalism, they hate democratic governments. This is a culture/religious war. It started without us and would continue without us. It's going on in some places that don't even LIKE us. Some wars are like avalanches; quick, sudden, and visually striking. Some wars are like glaciers, moving implacably year-by-year. This one is more like a glacier, unless you're personally in one of the hot spots, but it's just as real as any other war, just more diverse and less clearly defined, and the dead bodies are scattered more widely. The tools and tactics have changed.

There's plenty to debate and criticize about what we're doing and we've made more than our share of blunders over the years, but isolationism wouldn't have been the solution even if we'd been practicing it for the last 50 years. We tried that in the '30s and got sucked into WWII anyway.

At some point, either the world wil all wear burkas and pray to Mecca 5 times a day, or the world will wake up and start fighting for it's freedom. Again. The much maligned "Crusades" stopped Islamic expansion in the middle ages, at swordpoint, in FRANCE and it's going to take another "Crusade" to stop them again. Except that the pampered and spoiled West can't even identify a real enemy, and doesn't seem inclined to get off it's well-upholstered butt. It's not politically correct to notice or observe that an entire group of people is EVIL. Maybe I should go ahead and buy my prayer rug now, before the prices go up.

 

This discussion is great fun!

I'd love to believe the current administration in America and UK was on a crusade to protect freedom,its just the evidence doesnt support that fact in the least,forign policy in the west 'I dont see any difference between our countries' is to protect your assets abroad,period,it isnt to protect the people,free the people,its do what you have to good or bad to secure economic prosperity at home,to do this you need oil,the whole structure of world economy is based on Oil,this is a fact,the CIA has openly admitted to using devide and conquer to secure assets,an example of this and it failing is in venuzuala

To happily export the oil you need the people around it to let you,to be friends with each other and more importantly to be your friends,human rights violations are happending all over the middle east,saudi arabia for example but were happy to forget about that because they let us export their oil,another example was Iraq,we ignored his treatment of his people as long as he carried on exporting the oil,we only stoppped saddam after he attacked kuwait as it was worth more than Iraq,jimmy carter overthrew the shah in Iran to hopefully so Iran would become our friend an export oil and Iraq could win the war,they didnt and its considered as the worst "political mistake of the last 50 years" therefore we needed to get troops on the ground to stop Iran taking over Iraq,they arnt the wests oil buddies so we couldnt let that happen

Another example is afhanistan "the taliban were removed enable the,1000 mile caspian pipline to be built which now will provide America with a generation of oil,the first oil tanker to remove oil via the pipline was named the Condoleeza rice by chevrontexaco due to the amount of money she and the war has made them

The human rights violations in the middle east pale in comparison to those happening in africa,Tony blair was asked last night in an inteview by a member of the public why dont you do something about it,"theres nothing we can" do he replied,there nothing you want to do as there is no oil!

A government is a business we are a capitalist society,we need to make money for prosperity,if the government loses money by engaging in wars that dont make money,the business loses money,as a war in in africa would,wars that secure national prosperity good or bad are good for business

You could argue that the resources claimed by the west during these wars are a lucky side effect of doing a good thing,"freeing the people from tyranny"
either we are the luckiest people on the planet or somehow the oil played a role in the decisions to go to war,all logic and evidence points to the latter

I'm suprised you have such a fear of Islam GT,many countries in their infancy just as ours did had a heavy following to their chosen religion,only a few centuries ago in England people were executed for blasphemy,take the guy in your sig for example jailed for thinking the earth went round the sun,this is basically the stage alot of Islamic countries are in,tolerence of each other is a gradual slow process,if prosperity is allowed to continue in Islamic countries as it has here,they will eventually get tired of following the strict religious laws and find balance in other areas of life,its human nature,we like fun!,but if we the west suppress prosperity and the only source of hope is the Koran,the Islamic world will sink deeper into the koran as devine intervention is the only thing left to hope for

 

I don't think anyone reasonable has a problem with the fanatics being wiped off the face of the earth.

The problem is when the US (and others) go off-course, like Iraq.

Imagine if they used the resources for Iraq in Afghanistan and rural Pakistan?

Not to mention the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis that are dead or crippled.

 

Actually, I don't blame him.

Islam, with the exception of Indonesia (spread by trade), was spread throughout the world by warfare and domination.

 

As were all religions,the religions in place today are all there because of wars in their name,not because they were ideoligical superior,because the guys of any said religion had the biggest guns at the time

This going way off track,its an interesting thread I dont want it to dissapear,once religion gets involved non of us will agree,Its prolly my fault for bringing the wests motivations into the equation,but thats how I feel,I still dont like the idea of any developing country having nuclear weapons and dont have a solution to the Iranian problem

I do see it as a problem though,which for all the talk hopefully will be solved with words not war

 

I don't "fear" Islam Rikky. I've got terminal cancer, and short of a miracle, won't be around long enough to use that prayer rug here. I DO see it as the world's greatest current threat. And don't count on them getting tired and finding "fun". That didn't work in Germany in the 30s, and Islam's memories and goals go back over 1000 years. Most of the terrorists on the planes on 9/11 were well educated and from well-to-do families, not from the poor downtrodden. And the financial backers of the radicals are certainly NOT the poor and downtrodden. This is just the first time in a millenium that they've had the resources (thanks largely to oil), and a viable plan (thanks to the strides made by this past century's refinement of "asymetrical warfare") to resume their plans for world domination. If 1000 years hasn't mellowed their doctrine any, you'll not see it in your lifetime. The oil countries have plenty of "prosperity", but most of them keep it to the few in the ruling class. The rest are free to rot. And the Wahabi schools that teach NOTHING but the Koran do not equip their people to prosper at anything. They don't need our help to miss out on prosperity.

 

That's not correct.

Christianity was spread by missionaries and trade among other things.

Buddha wasn't spread by war.

So to say all religions were isn't factual. It was only Islam that was spread almost entirely by war.


As far as people thinking the US is in Iraq or Afghanistan for oil or profit, that doesn't make sense when you take into account all the billions per day that's spent in those countries running the war and rebuilding.

It would be easier and more profitable to simply invest or keep that money.

 

Probably not,not in the short term,but as I have said before,terrorism is an idea we can invade all the countries we want,it will only put us at more risk,bombs wont kill an idea,just fuel it

I seen lots of articles that try to identify the hijackers,but as of yet I havnt see anything convincing,it looks as though they were all using false passports,so who knows,one thing I think is true though they didnt come from afghanistan,from what I have seen they were from saudi arabia and since the CIA setup and funded up untill sep 11 binladens guerilla training camps,they should at least be psrtly responsible

Insomniac I'v giving up on religion ,I'll go with what you say As for oil,you can invest all you want in a region,if the taliban wont play ball with you theres nothing you can do about it ,the taliban wanted too much money for the pipline,many countries have dreamed of taking the caspian sea oil reserve but couldnt due to conflicts in the area,russia were in talks with the taliban at the time of the invasion of afghanistan to build a pipline,this again is historical fact

whichever way you look at america now has 3-4 more decades of oil due to the afghanistan war,this is fact,I dont need to argue it,if you want to believe it was a war against terrorism thats up to you.

I just dont buy it,especially with the conflict of interest in the whitehouse at the moment due to them all being heavily into the oil business

Check out the evidence for yourself,everyone I know in the UK also agree's it was about oil,I have spent hours looking at the evidence and cant come to any other conclusion,the oil is being shipped as we speak from afghanistan to america by chevron texaco,if this isnt evidence enough,what is?

 

Infidel!