Is it worth upgrading my PC? Help please

Hi all. I am thinking of upgrading my PC to play the latest games. I am on a tight budget and can't make my mind up as to which is the best way to go to increase gaming performance. I would really appreciate any opinions on this.

Here is my current spec:

Dell XPS 600
P4 3.2 with hyperthreading (I think that's pretend dual core)
2 gigs of ram running at 533 speed
Geforce 7800 GTX 256mb
Motherboard nvidia nforce4 sli (I think that's the motherboard after googling. The manual doesn't tell me what it is)

Looking at my PC manual it appears my options are limited....

Processor: this is from the Dell site:
The XPS 600 also offers a variety of processor options including Intel® Pentium® D or Extreme Edition Dual Core Processors with HT Technology, or Pentium 4 Processor with HT technology up to 670 (3.80GHz, 2MB L2 cache, 800MHz FSB).

It says 'including' above but doesn't tell me what the other options are that they haven't listed and googling didn't help either.

Ram upgrade is confusing too. I know I can get two 2 gig sticks to upgrade to 4 gigs of pc5300 DDR2 667 which is slightly faster ram but don't know if I can use even faster ram than that too. I read somewhere the motherboard is 800 mhz so I should be able to use the same speed ram but I don't know if that's true.

Graphics card upgrade is kind of confusing too. I'm thinking of going for an ATI HD 4870 512mb but I won't be able to run two if I want to upgrade again later. I think I have to go for a Geforce card if I want SLI. I am thinking of the Geforce GTX 260 as an alternative though that's getting a little out of my price range. Also, I don't know what benefits I'll get from these cards, will my processor hold me back a bit and if so will any of the processors listed above solve the problem?

I'm sorry this is so long and I'm no expert so I hope none of the above was confusing. Thanks in advance for any help.

Edit: I forgot, I am using XP Media Center edition which I believe is 32 bit. Will it recognise my ram if I go up to 4 gig or will I have to get Vista? Thanks.

 

First off to answer your last question, for 4gigs of ram you need a 64bit OS, either XP or vista.

As far as upgrading goes, if your Mobo has a PCI-E and enough power on your PSU the only big thing you can do is get a new video card(a GTX 260 imo) but i believe you need to 2 6pin PCIE connectors to give it the juice.

The only alternative is to let me know what your budget is and maybe we can build you a pc

 

Hi Borsung thanks a lot for the reply. I don't have a budget for a new PC I have about £250 max to spend. I originally thought £44 to go up to 4 gigs of ram would leave me with enough to buy a graphics card but now I am wondering about the processor too.

I don't know if my processor is already old hat or not. I have been searching a bit more and found a better description of what processors I can have:

Processor Options: Intel® Pentium® D Dual Core Processor up to 840 (3.20GHz, 800MHz, 2MB cache) or Intel® Pentium® Extreme Edition Dual Core Processor with HT Technology (3.20GHz, 800MHz FSB, 2MB cache) - user-overclockable in BIOS to 3.40GHz and 3.60GHz or Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor with HT Technology up to 670 (3.80GHz, 800MHz, 2MB cache).

Also, I noticed that about the six pin connector things how can I tell if they are in my PC or not? Also I don't know what power my PSU is or how to find out.

I really don't expect to end up with an amazing games PC at all but a 4 gig ram machine with a good graphics card would be enough I thought as long as the processor doesn't let everything else down. I don't know if it's worth mentioning or not but my monitor only supports 1680 x 1050 so I only need a card that's ever going to go that high in resolution and still perform.

Thanks again for the help.

 

Well as far as EUROS go, i have no idea haha, but i think even a 9800GTX card would suffice your needs, my brother has one in his OEM gateway machine with a intel core 2 duo 2.4ghz processor and he can run most games at high settigns and others on low/medium with much better playability.

As far as ram goes, im not sure id be concerned, you could buy another gig stick and get to 3GB of ram(the max 32bit OS's support) that will help out a little in multi-tasking.

Did a little research myself and yea it says you can get a duo core processor, the Pentium D series.

So look around where ever you live for:
1Gig DDR2 ram stick
Nvidia 9800GTX
Pentium D processor.

Also to check your PSU, you might have to open the case and just look on the actual PSU should be on the top, but i had a DELL XPS gen 4 and they had their PSU hidden so i couldnt see it lol. Might have tod o a little more research to find what yours is.

Id say make sure you got atleast a 500-600W psu in there.

Hope this helps!

 

Thanks again Borsung. Well I've managed to confuse myself further. I have found a place selling stuff secondhand and they guarantee it for a year. They have a Pentium4D dual core 3.2 which is the fastest Pentium D my computer supports but it seems really cheap. In fact it's just a slight amount more expensive than the processor I already have which is three years old which can't be right. I mean it's effectively two of the type I've already got.

Does that make any sense to you? Or anyone else? lol.

I can't upgrade to 3 gigs ram I currently have four 512 meg sims in there so I would have to put two 2 gig sims in or 4 1 gig sims. Either way I have to go to 4 gig but then I suppose I would need a 64 bit OS which I don't have.

God this is all so confusing. Oh yeah, and I looked at the recommended specs for Crysis and they say intel core2 duo I am guessing the Pentium D is core 1?

 

To be 100% honest with you, i am not really sure on the Pentium D series, i did not follow computers much from the pentium 4 series till about the quads came out. As far as your RAM goes, you can still probably buy 3 1 gig sticks, i mean u can get teh 4gigs but again windows wont recognize it, but hey if you ever upgrade to a 64bit down the road, u will be set.

Another thing is, you never answered about your PSU(power supply unit)

 

Hi again, well I've discovered I have a 650 watt PSU. I know that limits what graphics I can put in there but I don't know to what extent. I was looking at the Geforce GX2 which is effectively two 9800 GTX's on one card but I wonder now if my PSU will handle that. If not I'll just get one card.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

Im positive a 650watt will be able to easily handle 2 9800GTX(s) its the newer GTX series vid cards id be worried about.

 

if i where you i would just wait a few more months for ati to release there new graphics card range but then again i don't think you will get close to the full speed of the card since i think your cpu will be a bottleneck but it will still be super fast (not sure don't know much about INTEL)

2GB of ram is all you need for the latest games you don't really need more ram and it would be a waste to buy ram that's just a bit faster because you wont see the diff so stay with that ram you have

your psu is perfect since you get adapters with the graphics cards for the 6-pin (so don't worry about the 6-pin thing, and if you don't get a adapter you can just buy a cheap adapter at a store)

also i think it would be a waste to upgrade your cpu since new cpu's are allot faster and you will see maybe a small boost very little(not sure like i said dont know much about intel)

so i would recommend just buy a new graphics card (with the new ati releases coming out soon the old 4xxx editions will have a price drop and we all know how fast these 4xxx editions are )

after you got a new graphics card save up your money (even if it takes longer than a year) and then get AMD (since amd's performance is close to intel with a much lower price tag) and you will already have a sweet graphics card so you don't have to buy a new one

if you cant wait for them to release new graphics cards i would recommend the ati 4870 like you said (like i said the 6-pin thing is not a prob since you get adapters)

 

if i where you i would just wait a few more months for ati to release there new graphics card range but then again i don't think you will get close to the full speed of the card since i think your cpu will be a bottleneck but it will still be super fast (not sure don't know much about INTEL)

2GB of ram is all you need for the latest games you don't really need more ram and it would be a waste to buy ram that's just a bit faster because you wont see the diff so stay with that ram you have and stay with windows XP if you want to upgrade your windows just wait for windows 7 and dont even think of going vista

your psu is perfect since you get adapters with the graphics cards for the 6-pin (so don't worry about the 6-pin thing, and if you don't get a adapter you can just buy a cheap adapter at a store)

also i think it would be a waste to upgrade your cpu since new cpu's are allot faster and you will see maybe a small boost very little(not sure like i said dont know much about intel)

so i would recommend just buy a new graphics card (with the new ati releases coming out soon the old 4xxx editions will have a price drop and we all know how fast these 4xxx editions are )

after you got a new graphics card save up your money (even if it takes longer than a year) and then get AMD (since amd's performance is close to intel with a much lower price tag) and you will already have a sweet graphics card so you don't have to buy a new one

if you cant wait for them to release new graphics cards i would recommend the ati 4870 like you said (like i said the 6-pin thing is not a prob since you get adapters)

 

Please dont suggest AMD! Haha just kidding, im just a die-hard intel fan, my laptop has a amd processor and i was not impressed at all, my sister has a similar laptop than mine with an intel chip and its much faster.

As far as your CPU goes, again im not sure on the pentium d series, if it is a dual core i believe you will a performance boost over the pentium 4.

 

I would just get a Nvidia 8800GT or a 9800GT, and perhaps some RAM. Not sure what you have, but DDR2 RAM is cheap, and the 8800 and 9800GT's can be found at pretty good prices.

Keep in mind the size if the cards. I have an ATI 3870 X2 (dual GPU) card and the thing is massive! I had to cut out part of the hard drive cage to get it to fit in a ThermalTake Soprano mid tower case.

 

Thanks so much for all the help everyone. So now I have to worry about the size of the graphic cards too lol. I'm convinced now that a woman invented PC's just to annoy men who wanted to play games.

Borsung, hi again, good news about the PSU, thanks for that

Shenks, hi, thanks for the reply. I was going to do as you said and wait a bit for prices to come down so I could get a better card but I read somewhere whilst googling about someone who has an XPS600 and got a 4870 and didn't get an increase in performance because of his CPU. I just spent ages looking for that post and can't find it again.

I really need to find out about the Pentium D which is apparently dual core. My motherboard supports up to the 840 which is two P4 3.2's. I have one 3.2 now which supports HT which is 'fake' dual core so I can't see how this wouldn't be a massive improvement but the price difference between the Pentium D and my current cpu is so small I think I must be getting something wrong somewhere along the line.

I am tempted to do as you say and just go buy a new graphics card and see where that takes me.

Fred G. Hi, thanks for replying. I have 2 gigs of ram and can afford to upgrade to 4 but don't know if it's worth it now since I have a 32 bit OS: XP Media Center Edition. The graphic card size dilemma baffles me I have a tower which looks big to me but might not be big enough lol. I am beginning to think now I will almost definitely go for a single card. Either the ATI HD4870 with one gig of texture ram or the GTX260.

 

"So now I have to worry about the size of the graphic cards too lol. I'm convinced now that a woman invented PC's just to annoy men who wanted to play games."

Then a man invented the Dremel tool, and now we have case modding! :dood

As far as your RAM, 2 Gigs should take care of most games. The GTX260 is a nice card I have one in my gaming rig. I think your CPU will be a bit of a bottleneck, but the 260 should go with a new computer if you build a new one in the near future,

4.3" x 10.5" according to this link http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_260_us.html

 

Thanks Fred. Okay I feel I'm slowly getting the overall picture now. I'm going to be stuck with this PC for the foreseeable future so if the CPU is going to be a bottleneck I might just go out and buy a cheap but decent graphic card. The 260 is a little out of my price range at the moment anyway specially if I go for more ram.

So what do you think would be a reasonable upgrade to a Geforce 7800 GTX 256mb that would perform reasonably at resolutions of 1680 x 1050 with a Pentium 4 3.2 processor or is that even possible?

I can't find any benchmarks anywhere for the P4 3.2 versus the P4D 3.2 or Pentium 4 Extreme edition which I believe is dual core too so I am just going to give up on the processor. Anyway, thanks again.

 

I am not familiar with intel CPU's prior to the Conroe multi-core ones. You might find some helpful info in some of these charts if you dig around. http://www.cpubenchmark.net/

Here are a couple of cards: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4486365&CatId=1826 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4410188&CatId=3670

If you shop around, you can probably find better prices. Not too long ago, there were a bunch of used ones selling for around $60 to $80 on some other forums.

 

Thanks for the link Fred. It has a benchmark test which scores my processor at 499 and the Pentium D 3.2 at 866. I don't know what the numbers denote but it's obviously faster and the Pentium D is dual core whereas my current processor only has hyperthreading.

Do you know of any way to determine if my current processor would hold me back with some of the newer cards? Trial and error would be a bit expensive lol. I am wondering to aim low rather than high, i.e. go for something like a 9800 gt rather than a newer card like the HD4870 or GTX 260.

I have spent hours and hours googling and can't find any definitive answer to whether or not I am wasting my time buying a new card considering the processor I've got. Thanks again for all the help.

 

You could play around a bit here: http://service.futuremark.com/search/form.action I tried a couple of searches but the results are sporadic.

You can also search by benchmark program http://service.futuremark.com/search/3dmark03.action That is a link for 3D Mark 03

Keep in mind that a lot of the results are from overclocked CPU's and or GPU's.

 

Okay I have finally discovered that the Pentium D is junk it's not dual core at all it's just two processors together with no dual core functionality. The Extreme is just a slightly better version of the Pentium D.

At least I know now why they are so cheap. So, a processor upgrade seems to be completely pointless. I'm just going to go for a cheap graphics card and see how it goes. I must surely be able to see at least some performance increase going from a 7800 gtx 256mb to a more modern card with say, 512mb.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

Hang on everybody...

Not to butt in late, I kinda am, but have you visited this page?

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps600/en/SM/specs0.htm

From what I can see, you have a very nice PC, with a so-so processor.

It has PCIe x16 capability, is SLI ready, has a nice nVidia chipset, and can support an Socket 775 Intel processor.
As long as the latest BIOS is installed, you should have no problem with a true dual core processor.

In addition it will support PC2-5300 (DDR2) memory modules, and is Vista approved.

My advice is contact Dell Support, and chat with a representative about your options.

I'll even do a little more research myself...

Check this link:

http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Computer-Systems/How-to-Max-Out-a-Dell-XPS-600-and-Your-Credit-Card/

And a little bit of a more confusing link:

http://www.nvidia.com/content/nforce700i/nForce_Intel_CPU_List.pdf

:cool

 

Hold the phone, y'all...

"People don't address or answer core issues, then start tossing in opinions and other things to download."

-Major Attitude

Hope he doesn't mind me quoting him here. I can't send a message to ask him proper...

:major

 

nVidia claims lab tests with nForce4 SLI check out.
It is dual core, and specs are at this link:

http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SL/SL8FK.html

It is a VERY nice processor, large cache (1MB x 2), runs at 3.2GHz, and has and 800MHz FSB
It can be purchased for around a hundred dollars at StarMicro.
Shop around, and you may find it for less.

 

Check out this video card:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4486359&CatId=1839

You can do both for just over two hundred bucks, or a little over 140.30 British Pounds according to my desktop currency gadget.

 

i have a his 4850 iceq4 turbo edition that i overclocked to the turbo x edition i know i can overclock it allot more but i don't want to. anyway i play all my games at 1920x1680 with a nice framerate, only GTA4 has the worst lag out of all my games and i play it on 1680x1050(the only game i play on this res the rest are all 1920x1680 even farcry 2) and get 40+fps on the settings the game recommended for me medium quality and i think the distance detail is 42 or 52 cant remember, i don't feel like opening GTA now just for the details

 

i have a his 4850 iceq4 turbo edition that i overclocked to the turbo x edition i know i can overclock it allot more but i don't want to. anyway i play all my games at 1920x1680 with a nice framerate, only GTA4 has the worst lag out of all my games and i play it on 1680x1050(the only game i play on this res the rest are all 1920x1680 even farcray2) and get 40+fps on the settings the game recommended for me medium quality and i think the distance detail is 42 or 52 cant remember, i don't feel like opening GTA now just for the details

 

OR, just over 150 Euro...


I was getting a little tired at the end last night, but the video card I linked for you is XFX GeForce 8800 GTS Video Card - 640MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, SLI, Dual DVI, HDTV, and it is Recertified. You have a PC that was meant for gaming, so you would love the way this will render...

If you have a DVI / VGA concern, they do make adapters...

 

Hi the mekanic sorry I haven't checked this thread for a while so I'm late replying. I was told elsewhere that my processor is so bad that there's no point in me buying anything other than a 9600 GT at the most as anything above that would be bottlenecked by my processor.

I have since bid for one of those cards on ebay. I was kind of disheartened by all the comments saying dump the PC etc so decided to just get a card on the cheap to see if it's any improvement on the 7800 GTX.

Do you think the Intel EE processor you linked would enable me to use a better card? I was told also that they aren't really dual core is that true? Thanks so much for all the help.

 

Your video card is dependent on your PCIe bus, which has an x16 slot, and your power supply. From what I read, your 650 watt supply is more than adequate for the card I showed you. It requires at least a 450.

Hopefully, someone will outbid you.

As for the processor, I couldn't get a CPU ID on the Extreme Edition series from the CPU sites I use, but if you can find one somewhere, nVidia lab tested those two 1066 MHz FSB processors specifically, and they did work with your chipset. You just need to track them down if they are available for sale anywhere. As far as I know, the 840 and the EE series are true dual cores.

As I said before, and I hope you read the article I posted for you, this PC is designed for gaming.

 

Hi again. Well, my PC was sold as a gaming machine but that was three years ago. I'm not sure if my chipset is nforce 4 sli or nforce 4 sli x 16 but I think it's the former.

The manual is really vague as to what processors I can have but I found Dell info that states I can have a P4 EE 3.2 but the only one I've found online is the s478 socket. It's quite expensive too but I would get it if I knew it was dual core and would solve my processor problem for a little while longer.

 

What I recommend is to go to the Dell homepage>Support>Downloads & Drivers.

From there, enter your Service Tag, and chat with Tech Support.

Ask them what your mobo is capable of according to their info to doublecheck.


As far as I know, there was only one mobo configuration with this build.

Chipset: Nvidia nForce4 SLI

PCI Bus: PCI 32-bit PCI Express x1 and x16

 

P.S. Your service tag is what, and pretty much the only thing, that can identify exactly which nForce chipset you have.

 

Slight problem with Dell is my warranty is up and they flatly refuse to even speak to you if your warranty is out. They won't give any advice whatsoever on any components. I might have to phone them tomorrow and make out like I want to buy an upgrade from them. They might give me the time of day if they smell money. Seriously they're the worst customer support in the entire universe.

I've been reading up again on that processor and keep getting the information I got when I checked a while back. It's not much faster than a Pentium D, which is pretty slow.

I'm still playing recent games at high res with the 7800 gtx so the processor can't possibly be the spawn of Satan everyone says it is. I think I'll stick with plan A and get the 9600 gt which I've bid on anyway and see how it goes.

Thanks the mekanic.

 

Look, I chat with Dell all the time. All I do is enter the service tag of whatever Dell PC I have gotten as "junk", and I chat with a representative. They have consistently provided me with chipset information about motherboards, because the ship date of the PC can make a difference when it comes to such things. USE THE CHAT WITH REPRESENTATIVE OPTION IN A WINDOW.

They cannot and do not deny you basic (and vital) info about your PC.

Trust me, take the steps I outlined. It couldn't hurt, now could it?


A*S|U|ME NOTHING, I implore you...

 

The SL8FK (840) 3.2GHz dual core processor I dug up may not be the same processor you have at present.

Smithfield XE
The Pentium Extreme Edition was introduced at the Spring 2005 Intel Developers Forum, not to be confused with the "Pentium 4 Extreme Edition" (an earlier, single-core processor occupying the same niche). The processor was based on the dual-core Pentium D branded Smithfield, but with Hyper-threading enabled, thus any operating system saw four logical processors (two physical and two virtual). It also had an unlocked multiplier to allow overclocking. It was initially released as Intel Pentium Extreme Edition 840 at 3.20 GHz, in early 2005, at a price point of $999.99 (OEM price) or $1,200 (retail). The only chipsets that worked with the Extreme Edition 840 were Intel's 955X, NVIDIA's nForce4 SLI Intel Edition, and ATi Radeon Xpress 200. Using a Pentium Extreme Edition branded CPU with an Intel 945-series chipset will disable Hyper-threading effectively turning the processor into a Pentium D branded equivalent.


Double check with Dell to konw for sure, and to know if you can go for an Intel Core 2...

 

no its really not worth upgrading for 200-300 bucks you could build a true dual core setup the cpu your have is slow & thats its gonna bottle-neck any new components you install

 

Well, we are seeking affordable alternatives. The poster has a limited budget. And though this mobo is capable of a 1066FSB processor, and is SLI ready, with two PCI x16 slots, the Intel 955 3.73MHz processor is pricey, even at StarMicro.

We do still need to find out what processor she has for sure, and if this board, as expandable as nVidia claims, can run a Intel Core 2 processor. Depends on the BIOS, and the capability.

Please read these specs:

http://www.nvidia.com/page/pg_20041015917263.html

http://www.slizone.com/object/slim_help_mobo.html

Then we can make a better decision.

 

Just saw your last post. It's a bit late here but I'll try Dell again tomorrow. I've only tried phoning them it may be easier getting info from them on the net. It would be great if I could use core2 it's definitely worth finding out. Thanks again for the help.

 

The Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 Wolfdale 2.8GHz with a 3MB L2 Cache would be the best priced option if it is capable...