Is My Memory Or Motherboard Bad?

I have two 512mb pc133 sdram sticks in my computer (model info: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022149&cid=RAM.346.407 )

I'm experiencing random freezes/reboots... But I don't know if my motherboard or ram is at fault. Or worse something else I don't know about. I've tested each ram stick on my motherboard one at a time in the first and second dimm slot. They both pass DocMemory, and Memtest86+. But this morning I tried BOTH sticks in my pc at the same time and the test shows some failures. I want to know what you guys think is wrong with my pc. I've literally spent months diagnosing this problem off and on. Mostly due to work and my long winter vacation. I'm pulling my hair out and feel as if no one can help. I've spent the last two days reading my motherboard manual and trying to configure my bios to optimal settings by googling each one (that actually took me a whole day).

I built this pc with all new parts and a few used parts:
(I know it's an old pc but it's all I could afford)

Asus Tuv4x Motherboard
Two Patriot 512mb pc133 sdram sticks
Deer 450watt generic psi
Thermaltake copper heatsink with fan
Tualatin pentium 3 1.4ghz CPU (model: sl5xl)
Maxtor IDE 20gb hard drive (test drive - lol)
80pin ribbon cable for hard drive
40pin ribbon cable for disc drives
Two LG super multi disc drives
Two case fans
Soundblaster pci audio card
USB 5 port pci card
Raid controller pci card
All in wonder x800xt video card
Nic Ethernet pci card



Thanks

 

Freezes at what point before post, after post, before desktop. Can you get into the bios or will it also freeze when accessing or when in the bios.

The suspect list would include mobo, ram, psu (especially your generic one) and lastly vga (probably bottom of the list of suspects on the vga).

It could also be due to cpu overheating. BTW are there any beeps emitted by the bios.

Perhaps this has placed ram at the top of the suspects list. Only way to eliminate ram completely especially with the conflicting results that you got, would be to buy a known working module (ebay) and test out.

I recently replaced a faulty mobo and the symptoms were varied.
1. Freezing at any point from boot to desktop.
2. Sometimes system froze when i was in bios.
3. Other times would boot to desktop and then freeze.
4. Sometimes when booted monitor would go blank and system would reboot.
5. Or at boot would go into endless reboot loop.
6. Blank screen at boot with endless reboots.

My proceedure was as follows:
1. Change the vga and ram with known working parts and test. This made no difference.
2. On the off chance clear cmos. No change.
3. Change mobo. System now works and this with the original vga and ram

Good Luck

 

Have you looked in event viewer , to see if you can get a clue to it-
Click computer, Right click manage, look for event viewer, and scroll down to the symbols telling you a problem occurred (Yellow triangles/statement sign.
Double click the offending ones to see what might have happened- often a link is there if its a known issue.
Otherwise, have you checked your not overheating ? Everest is a good download to see, if you have no other way.
Are the fins f the cpu heatsink clean?
Crossed posts, so the overheating was aleady described

 

I never get freezes during the post, or after post. I do on occassion get freezes before desktop. I also never get freezes in the bios. I can be in my bios all day without any problem.

There is one beep when I turn my system on, and according to my motherboard manual that means everything has passed post. I've tried clearing CMOS multiple times to no avail. I have two old sticks of pc133 ram which I can try on this board instead of the two currently installed. They are much smaller in size but we'll see what happens!

This computer is immaculate as all parts are clean. I clean all old used pins with an eraser and isopropyl alcohol. The CPU has a one inch pure copper heatsink, and I used artic silver 5 thermal compund on it. I'm positive that heat isn't an issue.

 

I haven't tried using the pc in safe mode, but that still wouldn't explain my memtest86+ issues with my ram. I honestly don't think safe mode would lead to the key problem... But I guess I could check. Only problem is sometimes the system won't crash/reboot for days after being on so it could be a long while before I truly find out in safe mode. I'm trying other things posted such as using another batch of ram sticks before I go ahead and try safe mode!

 

Given that your rig does not freeze when accessing or in bios, I would rule out a bad mobo. Double check however that there are no bad caps on the mobo. However, it could well be a ram slot that has issues.

Top of the list at this stage if we assume that it is hw related would be ram and psu.

It could of course be a software issue. You may wish to try using a Linux live cd and see whether you can boot to desktop and use it without issue. Linux will not alter any windows configuration(s) and if you use Puppy it will load entirely in ram.

Good Luck

 

I just removed the two 512mb pc133 sdram sticks, and replaced them with two spare sticks that were known to be working years ago. They are much smaller in size (one being 128mb, and the other being 64mb). But the funny thing is they both pass for hours in memtest86+ on the same mobo. I obviously won't be using these two sticks because they're too small and I'm just using them to test everything out.

But than what does that mean? How in the world could those two 512mb pc133 sdram sticks be bad when I purchased them new retail in store and up to motherboard specifications to a tee? They're Patriot brand and like I said pass tests fine when used individually on both dimm slots 1, and 2. This is odd... Do you have any suggestions? Oh and by the way thanks for the informative information on your previous post that was an extremely good read!

 

Lets be clear

1. when you test both sticks together with memtest, test fails
2. when you test each module separately, the test for each passes

Is that correct?

Next question. How long did you test the ram sticks for either individually or together. I usually test for a FULL 24hrs as any lesser period, however long, may overlook faults.

Now as an added point mobos and ram can be difficult bed fellows. It is conceivable that both patriot modules are fine singly but when inserted together in your pc they behave like unruly children.

If your pc runs without issues using the smaller/older ram modules then the fault somehow must be with the new ram.

Good Luck

 

I had the ram problem when I changed my adata ram for crucial- although site gave me the recommended one's, I had a real problem with them, and changed back to adat- Mine might have been because I used 4 x 1gb sticks, as later, I tried it with just two, and it runs o.k- but my system did not like them.
So risk_reversal has a good point- I had forgotten my own , because it was a couple of years back.

 

Well I'm going to run Memtest84+ for 24 hours straight on my old spare ram to be sure that the newer ram is indeed the culprit. I hope I get some positive results though because this is just frustrating, and time consuming. It's making me feel so tired!

:zzz

 

A1. Yes when I test both of the brand new 512MB Patriot PC133 SDRAM sticks together the Memtest86+ tests fail. Failure times vary... Sometimes as soon as I run the test. Though at other times it shows failures after a few test passes.

A2. Yes sir when I test each module separately for a few hours the test passes.

I can't lie I tested one stick for about 8 hours, and the other for maybe 2 hours or so. I'm enjoying my long weekend so I'll take your word for it and retest each of the two sticks for 24 hours straight individually, and than together. While also swapping them on the motherboard DIMM slots.

Thanks for your continuous support.

 

I know how you feel. I have been tackling an intermittent and very unusual problem on one of my desktop pcs which has consumed much time.

I have in turn replaced vga, ram, mobo, psu and continued to get problems. I have just replaced the cpu and am testing. Because the problem is intermittent, I have to test for extended periods usually a week.

I think it must the cpu that is faulty 'cos there is nothing else. Once I have ascertained that it is, I will replace the old mobo, psu, ram and vga to make sure that I keep working components.

Fun, fun, fun......

 

Are you kidding me? That would drive me insane... But to be honest I've been testing this pc since mid 2009 on and off. I travel here and there so really don't have the chance, plus I work so that takes up my time too. I've probably put two/three whole weeks of testing into this pc if you sum up all of the time I've spent trying to fix it.

True though I think your cpu is probably bad, you said you swapped everything else out so what else is left other than the tower chassis? LOL! Computers are so funny when they want to bite us in the rear and act smart aren't they? Good luck with that tough I hope it's the cpu. I hope you didn't have to buy all of those spare parts to test with.

:tired

 

Being a pc junkie, I carry a lot of spare parts for my desktops and laptops so I usually don't have to buy parts and didn't for this ongoing repair.

Let us know how you get on with memtest.

Good Luck

 

Right now I have the old "known to be working" pair of ram testing inside my machine until they reach 24 hours so I can see the results. I'll bet you anything they'll pass every repeated test with the Memtest86+ boot disc I'm using! I hope there's just a problem with the new pair of ram. I've already tested the pc with both pairs of new ram installed in the past, & they always failed testing together so I won't be trying that procedure again. It's obvious they just don't work with each other even though they're identical sticks of ram made by the same specifications/model/brand. But I never tested them individually for your recommended timing of 24 hours [since I'm impatient and only tried 2-4 hour testing]. So that leaves the possibility that one of the two are bad, or even both.

Conclusions:

- Testing with both new sticks result in repeated failures, so testing each individually for 24 hours should yield "true" results
- A possible motherboard/psu problem if the old "known to be working" pair doesn't pass 24 hour testing


Questions:
I'd like you to look at the picture of my motherboard below. As you can see it has 4 dimm slots.

1. How do you think I should go about testing the two new ram sticks individually? Which slots should they be in? [ie: First, second, third, or fourth slot]

2. Should I try an individual ram stick out on a different dimm slot, if it turns out that the same ram stick failed on a previous 24 hour dimm slot test? [eg: ruling out a bad dimm slot]

 

Well have briefly looked at the specs to your board

http://www.pcpartscollection.com/asustuv4x.html

Is this correct? I also note that you have the dreaded VIA 686B southbridge. I had this on an Abit KT7A years ago. In the first instance, what via 4-1 chipset driver are you running. I don't think this is the issue here, just checking.

I would use slot 1 for all test of single modules. You are probably using this slot for your current test. If no errors come back that slot is working.

Of course the possibility exists that a ram slot has gone bad. You are currently running mentest on the old ram module pair. If the test result comes back ok with no errors, then those slots must be fine.

As I said above ram and mobos can make for bad bed fellows. A lot of factors can come into play. Manufacturer, model, type & whether the modules are single sided or double sided.

Of course there is the potential that your psu is ok with one 512Mb ram module but adding the second module tips the psu into causing a ram error. If I am not mistaken ram will use power from the 3.3v rail at a rate of 8w per 128mb (please correct me if I am wrong).

Post back after your initial tests are completed and we can take it from their. Hopefully other users will also be able to chip in with more ideas.

Good Luck

PS: any chance of a photo with the specs of your Deer psu ie where it say 3.3v, 5v & 12v need the Amps and total wattages. The label on the side should have all the relevant dets.

 

As an aside to the ram issue and relating to the photo of your rig, I have a question.

There is a strand with a molex connected to the HD. Now is that same strand also connected to your graphics card and does it continue to also connect to the front case fan(s).

So for clarity, the same strand connects hd, vga & front case fan is that correct?

 

I know a lot about computers but still haven't studied up on northbridges, southbridges, and what they do. So I figured I'd just take a snap shot of my mobo's manual for you to confirm.

As you can see in the picture below the two old ram sticks passed a 24 hour test. With over 50 passes and no failures I'd have to say that the test had to have yielded "true" results. I guess we can rule out a bad dimm slot! Mind you the first ram stick was 128MB, and the second was 64MB. Really old stuff. LOL

Note that the pair of old ram sticks are single sided, and the new pair are double sided. I don't think it would play any role in my problem because my mobo manual states that I can use either or. Here's the two complete pages about ram use from my manual.

Very, very interesting theory. I have also toyed with the thought that adding a second stick may cause the errors, random crashes, and reboots. I put it off because I thought if that were true why would my pc work sometimes for an entire day, or two, and than bam have the problems all of a sudden? It would have to supply enough power for it to work right away no? That's just me being foolish though I don't know enough to play with these theories, let alone calculate if my psu isn't supplying enough juice when two ram modules are inserted. Though it is the only generic pretty much no name component in my pc. The only reason I really have this psu is for building or fixing computers for myself and friends. It's not meant to stay in my pc... I will be buying a 500Watt 80plus certified Antec Earthwatts psu for this pc if I know the computer works without a hitch. I'm not spending the money if I can't get this pc to work. Nevertheless here's the picture you asked for.

Yes sir I believe your right about that. The molex strand coming from the psu is connected to my hdd, which is also connected to my vga card, and front Thermaltake Thunderblade 120mm LED case fan.

Here's the specs for my vga card in case you want to reference power usage:

http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx800/aiwx800xt/specs.html

& also the specs for my front case fan:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=024676&cid=FAN.505

You pretty much know the juice an old ide hdd uses so I won't supply that info. The hdd inside the computer is also for test purposes. It's a 20 gigger... & will also be replaced with two Western Digital 500GB Caviar Blue Earth ide hard drives. Once again only "IF" I can get this pc working so I don't waste the money. The picture you saw of the insides of my pc is old. I didn't even have the front case fan installed back than. Here's what it looks like NOW.



By the way I am now testing just one 512mb module from the new pair of ram [which has been known to fail together]. It's inserted into dimm slot 1 as per your instructions. I will let you know how the test fairs after 24 hours! No more being impatient this time I'm letting it run for a full day not a few hours. After that I'll remove the current stick, and insert the other new stick by itself in dimm slot 1 for another 24 hour test. Thank you very much for your concern and constant help. Your making the world a better place in a small way. :wave

 

1. You do have the Via 686B Southbridge. Did you not manage to find out what Via 4-1 chipset driver you have. Will likely be in the registry either the HKLocal or User key --> software

2. Although the manual may state that you can use single or double sided modules, the bottom line is that eg Corsair PC133 double sided ram may work but Patriot Double sided ram may not.

3. The Deer PSU seems ok from the specs. You have an older mobo which relies more on the 3.3v & 5v rails and much less on the 12v. The 12v on your mobo is for powering up fans, opticals, HD and your vga. The 3.3v and 5v are used for ram, cpu + HD & opticals.

Deer is not a good make. I am not advocating you changing it but bear (forgive the pun) in mind that it's poor quality. It may indeed be the source of the problem but lets wait till you finish testing the ram modules.

4. As regards the strands and connectors. Personally, I would never connect HW in the manner which you have. Firstly, there too much power being drawn on one strand for too many important components. The vga should be on it's own strand, with nothing else on it.

I usually also have my HDDs together on one strand. Never put a fan on the same strand as a HDD causes problems especially at boot when both the fan and HD require the most draw.

Given that you have an iffy psu this advice probably applies more so.

Let me know how the memtest develop.

PS I think I am also resolving my prob. 2 days no issues, fingers crossed it's the cpu.

Good Luck

 

PS. Given that you did not get an issues when running the 1st memtest, I think we can safely assume that your mobo and cpu are fine

 

Sorry I had to add this as a second post but I couldn't edit my previous post due to the ten minute editing time limit on this site. I just wanted to add that the reason why I say your helping the world in a small way is because the computer your helping me get up and running is built off the back of used parts. People would ask why I'm toying around with old computers and parts like I am. My explanation is simple...

I like to recycle computers because of the old saying recycle, reduce, reuse. We take so much from this planet and give nothing back in return. Computers that are "FULLY WORKING" end up in land fills. What with a little bit of elbow grease they can be put to good use. Take for example the computer I'm currently using to write you. This is my main pc, my first build ever, fully working and all. It's got a similar processor I'm using in my second problem build your helping me with. It's a Pentium 3 tualatin processor, two 256MB sticks of ram, on a Vectra VL400 HP motherboard with other nice components. I got the computer for $20 flat when they were being tossed out of a companies building. That's all the money I had on me at the time. If I could have paid for more on the spot I would have. This is what I did to it:

BEFORE:





& this is the beast AFTER:



I did that build with pride, and the pc does everything I need it to do without a hitch. I don't notice any slow speeds at all. Video editing, web use, extracting, defrags, etc. Everything runs FINE! Now on the other hand the pc your helping me get up and running in this thread will be used by my sister who will need it to educate herself. I will also use it when I have delicate processes taking place on this pc. Such as disc burns, or hdd image backups. So yes thanks and I'm just letting you know because you never really know who your helping out there and what they're planing to do with the computers your give them answers to.

:wave

UPDATE:
Just noticed you replied back with two posts so I will be reading those now above.

 

Nice case. Must admit I always wondered about those.

The only thing I do not like about it is the airflow. Looks like an 80mm at front and rear and one at the top. With all the hw and heat generated, the airflow generated by those fans is not nearly enough to cool the case & components.

My case is an aluminum Lian Li PC7 Plus II. 120mm fans front & rear and 120mm side all connected to a fan controller (inc cpu fan). I personally also like to create positive pressure.

Recycling pcs is great I do it all the time with older parts. My wife's pc has an old Jetway V266B mobo which has been recapped and is running great. She also never got used to XP so it's still running 98SE which is purring along very nicely.

Good Luck (off to bed now)

 

No I don't know what driver that would be nor where to look for it. I assume in Device Manager. But where exactly in there I dunno. I already formatted my hdd anyways in anticipation of finding out what ram problems seem to lie after these tests. So I can run a fresh install of XP later, that could have potentially been corrupt when installed by bad memory modules/configuration. Would this even matter though when we're clearly seeing errors in Memtest86+ with my ram modules? & Memtest86+ relies on a boot disc not an OS?

I see your point about bad bed fellows. Someone must be cheating on their partner! LOL JUST KIDDING! But jeez ram can be soooo iffy! :-D

I will be getting a newer psu as I mentioned in my previous post. Once I know I can spend the cash if the pc can work flawlessly.

I'll have to agree with you. I know quite a bit about computers but I'm still learning so I'll take your advice and connect everything properly after this module finishes it's 24 hour test. You make complete sense... But I'll have to leave everything as is if this psu doesn't have spare molex stands to use. I'll have to look in the case than and find out. Can't tell clearly from my pics, and too lazy to go in the basement and check now. :zzz

Hope you solve your problem there it's got to be the cpu. But I'm wondering myself how could your cpu have been damaged enough to cause such problems? I gather you know your stuff so I can't imagine how it went buff in your presence, unless you or someone else overclocked it in the past.

 

In referring to the Via 4-1 version, this was not in relation to the ram testing. I was just forward thinking. We can tackle that point later.

Old age I think. It's from a desktop pc which my children used years ago. The cpu must be about 7-8 years old (XP2600+ Thoroughbred 'B')

See ya

 

I don't mean to sound inexperienced but what is Via 4-1? Hardware? Drivers?

rolleyes

 

The 4-1 will not be listed in Device Manager directly. In DM, expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controller and you should see 3 entries (if 4-1 installed)
Primary IDE Channel
Secondary IDE Channel
Via Bus Master IDE Controller

or in XP

Go to the registry -->HKLM>Software>Via. If you have that key then you have installed the chipset driver. If you click on it, you will see what via 4-1 version you are running.

Basically your board is Intel based. Looks like you have the Via Appollo 133A chipset. Has a 133A Northbridge and a VT82C686B Southbridge.

The northbridge so to speak talks to the cpu, ram & agp ie higher functions (on your board, it is situated just under the cpu and has the heatsink on it, under the wires in the photo)

The southbridge talk the secondary functions ie pci, usb, hdd & opticals (on your board I think it is the chip just under the power connector to your vga card & covered by the end of the pci card below)

All motherboards will require chipset drivers to be installed usually just after o/s installation. This driver will allow the chipsets (brains of the mobo ) to talk to the components.

For example installing the chipset driver will allow the HDD to operate in DMA mode. I am by no means an expert on this, however I hope that I have given an adequate explanation (to any other users please correct me if I am wrong).

Understanding what the northbridge and southbridge do is important in that sometimes freezes can be attributed to one of those areas. ie for ram freezes (northbridge), it could well be that the heat generated by the NB is too high and you get ram freezes. Usually, the importance of cooling the NB comes about from o/c, hence some users place large HSF on the NB.

I usually run AMD boards but would guess that the Via chipset requirements for your Intel board would be the same ie you need to download and install the Via 4-1 chipset driver.

I would use v4.42 (older equipment running XP). The newer versions will allow for the AGP Gart to be either Via or XP's if using SP2 or higher. I am not sure about the AGP requirements on the 4-1 if you have XP SP2 or higher....

When you install the 4-1 you will see what I mean just install everything ie 4 things. Image prior to install it then you can test the agp card via Dxdiag, or get users opinions later on after you have resolved the current problem.

Back to the 686B southbridge, with earlier Via 4-1 versions this would create lock ups (this was about 8-9 years ago so cannot remember exactly but it was a widespread problem especially to do with the the optical drivers ie installs from cd would freeze and copying files also). In any case Via updated the 4-1 (v4.27 I think) and later versions corrected this issue. At the time I did not know too much about pcs, the KT7A (Appollo Pro 133A chipset) that I built at the time was giving me lots of problems (lock ups) and I eventually solved the prob by stumbling on the them Via Hardware forum (now know as Sudhian forums).

Sorry to rabbit on. Hope I have not covered grounds that was aleardy familiar to you.

Let me know how memtest concludes

Good Luck

 

I can see the whole driver issue relating to system freezes for some users. But how could it relate to my issue when we're seeing ram errors in Memtest86+ where no OS is being used? I could be wrong if Memtest86+ loads a virtual chipset driver on the ram so it can run. I don't know enough about computers to know if it does, but I'm assuming that's a possibility since I see drivers load for other boot discs. I'm sorry but I won't be able to check my driver version since my hdd has been formatted with no OS on it. I would have to check that when I get a chance to install XP. By the way my pc random reboots/crashes/freezes had happened when I had Windows Pro, Home SP2, & even Home SP3 installed. As per cooling... I'm not overclocking so I wouldn't need to have any. & this is an old board so I can't see it getting hot enough to cause issues. Than again I'm not experienced enough to be 100% positive. But from what I've learned on this site they say old boards are normally cool.

Well doesn't XP install the right drivers automatically when you first install the OS off disc? :confused

Well I've finally reached the 24 hour mark with one of the new Patriot 512mb sdram modules. & the test shows that it's fine! I took the module out and installed the second new Patriot 512mb sdram module into dimm slot 1. I don't know why but I have a feeling it'll pass as well after 24 hours. If it does we'll really need to get our heads cracking. Here's a picture of the test results.



I don't know about you [correct me if I'm wrong], but if the second module passes a 24 hour test on it's own. I'd have to guess it would be an issue with the power supply not being able to provide enough power for the two new 512mb ram sticks. Which is kind of funny though because the two old sticks of ram I tested before passed perfectly in Memtest86+ without errors. Than again I don't know enough about computers to know if older sticks like the ones I used [128mb & 68mb] use less power than newer sticks with more mb.

:major

I took the liberty of uploading a video of my bios settings. I set my bios to default when I first built this pc, than tweaked each setting to my own liking after researching each BIOS option with google. I felt as if these were the optimal settings to choose. Mind you my weakest area of expertise is a computer BIOS but I still went ahead and tweaked it this way. Hence why I had to research each option! Feel free to take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/v/UqcHPJPnSWI&hl

& hey you were right about the way I connected a lot of hardware to one molex strand coming out of my power supply. I opened the case when I swapped the ram for the next test and took this pic.



I never knew it was bad to connect everything in this manner. I currently have the one molex strand coming from the psu connected to my 20gb hdd, vga, 120mm exhaust case fan, and 120mm intake case fan with red leds. I kind of hooked it all up this way since the generic psu only has two main molex strands. The other main strand is connected to my two optical drives only! This also makes me believe the whole ram error/pc crashing/reboots issue is caused by the psu.

What I thought I'd do is if the next Memtest86+ test passes on the second new 512mb module I'll unplug the exhaust case fan, and intake case fan. Than try to test both new 512mb sdram modules installed at the same time [on dimm slots 1 and 2]. I mean we know they always fail with errors together but how about testing with less hardware drawing power from the psu? What do you think? This sounds like a good idea to me...

I've also thought of running the pc with the wiring left as is and just a single stick of the new 512mb ram installed. That way I can install xp, check the via 4-1 driver version you asked for, and than also see if the computer ever reboots with just one stick installed. I gather it wouldn't since if the stick passed a 24 hour Memtest86+ test. I've never tried running the pc with just one of the new sticks installed to see if I ever got any crashing/reboot issues with my XP OS.

What do you think mate? :confused

 

Lets leave the chipset drivers aside for now and concentrate on the ram.

1. Viewed the YouTube video as regards bios setting (nice music). The ram settings seem too aggressive. You are using 2-2-2-5. I am not sure if the Patriots can run with this. My instinct would say 'not'. I would suggest either relaxing them to the lowest settings 3-3-3-6/7 (?) or perhaps easier to change the bios setting to Auto.

2. If the 2nd ram module passes, then prior to running both patriot modules together, disconnect everything not required. I am not sure if you are running memtest from a floppy or boot disc but just leave that one connected and disconnect everything else. Also remove all pci cards apart from the vga.

If the second module individually passes, do memtest with both modules installed. I would suggest that you place 1 module in slot 1 ie closest the cpu and the other in slot 3. If that fails use slots 1 & 2. if that fails slots 2 & 4. I would not bother with slots 2 & 3.

See how if goes and we can take it from their.

If the 2 modules together pass, then either relaxing the ram timings, ram slots choice or disconnecting items from the psu did the job (or a combination of those). Not too important at this stage as what we need is stability.

If the test fails with both modules, we return to the earlier assumption that both patriot ram modules together and for some reason become unruly. There is still the possibility that the psu is the culprit but lets wait and see.

Let me know what happens after the 2nd module finishes its run. Once finished do nevertheless carry on with the points I have suggested above.

Good Luck

PS also noted in the bios that it detects the ram installed ie 512Mb, when both modules are inserted make sure it shows 1024Mb

 

I have the BIOS set to "SPD" in the memory section because it is supposedly supported by the new Patriot sdram modules. Here's the product page for the ram I purchased.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022149&cid=RAM.346.407

& the motherboard apparently supports "SPD" as per the manual. But the manual does indeed show the 3-3-3-6 settings you suggested. Maybe the Patriot sdram modules are a newer bunch that perform better with SPD, but the motherboard hadn't the technology to know how to handle newer sdram modules with the sort of timings the Patriot ones carry. I don't know if I'm making any sense since I'm no expert but I'm learning. I could be wrong.





For the sake of knowing here's a link to the entire pdf motherboard manual if it interests you. I uploaded it myself.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2vqpdo
[Official Asus TUV4X Manual - 3MB size PDF]

Whatever you say SARGENT! :major BTW I'm running Memtest86+ from a cd boot disc. It's actually a GPARTED boot disc but it has Memtest86+ on it as a bonus. Oh hey so I get I should uninstall/unplug everything but does that mean my hdd as well? Because if so I'll only be leaving my psu [of course], vga, one optical drive, cpu, heatink fan, and ram plugged in.

Can you enlighten me about ram timings? What does that mean exactly? From what I've been guessing all along that means the speed at which ram operates at with the information it's receiving/giving back. :confused

Thanks, and oh yes it does detect the ram at 1024Mb when both 512mb Patriot modules are installed. What you had seen was just one installed, which is why the BIOS only showed one. Sorry for the confusion...

& hey how's your testing coming along with your pc? Was it the cpu? Thanks again for the constant support if you have Paypal I will be willing to donate some funds your way when we reach the end of this misery. Thank you so much!

 

SPD didn't see that. Means that the bios is auto detecting best settings for ram (by reading them from ram itself). HOWEVER, I have looked at the specs to the ram which you linked to and it does not give the ram timings at which you can run the modules.

The only info that I can find is

http://www.patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=3&catid=5&prodgroupid=10&id=186&type=1

which says CAS Latency 3 (ie CL3) at bottom under Specifications. This means the CAS should be 3 and your bios has it set (perhaps incorrectly) at 2.

What I would suggest is that you go to the SDRAM Configuration in the bios and select --> [User Define]. The following 4 fields will become active. Enter 3-3-3-6 as per manual screenshot of bios. Save and exit bios.

Yes, unplug the HDD also, it is not required for memtest. Just leave the bare bones ie mobo, cpu, ram, psu and vga + of course the optical.

The ram timings in brief is the speed at which the ram will operate. The faster and more aggressive the settings the faster the ram will go (all relative though) but unless the ram is of sufficient quality errors will occur.

In your case the ram module itself will probably have the CL ie CAS rating printed on it, which says / should say 3. It is possible / probable that CL2 and the aggressive timings that you currently have 2-2-2-5 will work on one module (without giving errors) but not two of them. I am by no means an expert on this but only know enough to get by.

This will be day 4 of my testing (when I fire up the pc) but so far seems ok. I am not ringing the fire bell just yet but it appears that the cpu was the problem (or part thereof). When I rebuilt the system with the old mobo and test again with the new cpu and all the old components I will get absolute confirmation.

Good Luck and let me know how you get on.

 

I've now reached the 24 hour mark with the second Patriot 512mb sdram module. & the test also shows that it's fine just like the first one was!

Sorry my mistake... I forgot to mention that the video I filmed was made on day one of my problem solving, right after I cleared the cmos by removing the motherboard battery [so I could start problem solving fresh with default bios settings]. So the memory timings you saw where just BIOS defaults upon FIRST BOOT AFTER CLEARING CMOS. I had tweaked the bios as you seen in the video, and set the memory to "SPD" which is practically the same as "AUTO" since it just reads the timings off the ram. Reason why you didn't see the correct 3-3-3-6 timings was because the end of the video is when I clicked SAVE AND EXIT. So the correct timings would only show after that first bios save and exit. So sorry about that but yes ever since I saved my bios settings that first time it's always been 3-3-3-6 for memory, even when both new Patriot 512mb sdram sticks were on board. Once again I'm sorry about the confusion on that, I just realized that today while coming home from work...

Good luck with that! Believe me I share your frustration. How much was the bad cpu though? I hope it doesn't cost much to throw away... Also how much was the replacement cpu you now have testing? You also didn't let me know what kind of cpu your running. A lot faster than mine I assume! LOL

Yes sir I have now placed both new Patriot 512mb sdram modules in slots 1, and 3 as per your instructions. I've also unplugged everything leaving just the cpu, heatsink+fan, and vga plugged in. Every pci card has come off, and all other decoration fans are disconnected, also disconnected the hdd. I'll let you know how this test concludes in 24 hours.

Btw sorry to write you back so late today, but today's MY BIRTHDAY!!!!
Went to a restaurant with my gal, she bought me some cologne, Ben Hur the film on dvd special edition, and tickets to go see KING TUTS TREASURES. The real deal all his life's treasures at the museum in town! Had a good day but still found time to fiddle around with this pc. I'M NOT GIVING UP! :major

Thank you sargent!

 

Belated Birthday Wishes

Ok, well at least that is cleared up.

If the test fails, I am sure it will do so in less than 24hrs. Lets see what happens

Good Luck with it.

 

Thank you very much for the bday wishes!

I'm sorry to inform you but my girlfriend's mom accidentally powered off the pc thinking she could use it to go on the net and check her email when she came over. So I have to start the test again from scratch. & I can't leave the pc on today because the hyrdo city electrical workers are working on the street poles/wires that were damaged by a lightening storm last year. So I'll have to wait until later tonight [April 7th] to test it all again.

Btw my pc wasn't connected during that storm last year. It was in the closet in case you were thinking about it.


Thanks for your patience. How's your pc coming along?

:wave

 

No prob. When you do it report the findings.

As regards my pc, I think it's definitely the cpu but will test for another day or so. After that I will replace the current mobo with the original one and test for a week to confirm that it was just the cpu.

I hate tedious problem solving such as the one I have as one is forever rebuilding the pc.

Good Luck

 

Alright so where were we? Yes... First stick of troublesome Patriot 512mb ram passed a 24 hour test in slot 1, second Patriot stick also passed a 24 hour test in slot one as well. You than told me to unplug/detach all hardware except for cpu, vga, optical, and run a 24 hour test with both ram sticks on slot 1 & 3. I than ran into technical difficulties when my girlfriend's mom powered my pc off by accident, resulting in me having to start all over. & finally waiting a day to do so because of hydro electrical workers working on our street poles.

So well last time I came from work I totally forgot that you wanted me to test with most hardware unplugged/disconnected. I had just come from my night shift and was kind of in a blur. So I saw a few pci cards laying beside the tower and put them back in the pc, connected all wires as they were, put one ram stick in slot 1, the other in slot 3, set memtest, and went to bed in a daze. I realized I was to leave all devices out when I woke up. LOL I was so used to taking this pc apart to troubleshoot it in the past that I put it back together in my sleepy daze! SORRY.

Anyways I decided to leave it testing since I had already begun the test, went to work again, came back, checked later, and to my surprise the darn sticks passed a 24 hour test with both of them connected & all hardware connected as it had always been! [eg: vga, hdd, pci cards, etc]



I don't think I have ever seen a pass while testing both sticks at the same time EVER. So I came here to write you and let you know. & since it's late at night here again, I decided to run another small test if you will, while I wait for you to respond. I placed the ram in slot 1 & 2, and left them testing with memtest. I'm just curious to see what happens... Putting them in that position always gave me errors! That's the main reason why I started this thread. As I believe that using both is the cause of my reboots/freezes.

I can't remember if I tested both modules together in slot 1 and 2 position after optimizing the BIOS when I first started this thread. I also don't think I EVER tested the ram while in slot 1 & 3 position. I'm surprised they passed. Well I'll do whatever you need me to. If you want me to disconnect everything again and retest while they're in slot 1, and 3 I will. Just let me know what to do next and what you think.

Thanks for your patience.

 

Ok so just for clarity memtest passes a 24 hr test with ram modules in slots 1 & 3 with all hw attached as per above.

Great. So PSU can be ruled out and we are now just looking at mobo slot configuration for ram.

I suspected that ram slots 1 & 3 might provide a successful outcome (my 1st slot choice for 2 modules of ram) but given that memtest takes so long, I thought that it would be safer to remove extra draw from psu. Don't worry you have just skipped a step as if the ram had passed memtest in slots 1 & 3 with hw disconnected from psu, the next test would have been to reconnect all hw to psu and run the test again for 24hrs (with ram in slots 1 & 3 still).

As I said earlier mobos and ram make for bad bedfellows. Which ram slots to place the ram in so that the ram works without errors adds another layer of complexity at times.

Many earlier Via chipset boards (KT133A, KT333, KT400) would not work well with ram inserted in slots 1 & 2 and gave errors as per following thread recently.

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=213425

Just for clarity, obviously leave the ram modules in slots 1 & 3 and you can now carry on with your testing / install of xp. I would not expect ram freezes to occur now.

Going back to the chipset drivers. After you install XP install the Via 4-1 chipset driver (v4.42) from the via site. Install this immediately after XP install.

So install
1. o/s
2. Via 4-1
3. DirectX (v9.0c)
4. Vga driver
5. whatever your personal taste dictates.

The other points I would make as regards this board and given that you earlier said that you wanted to install 500Gb HD is that this board only supports 28bit LBA ie will not detect HDDs >137Gb.

I guess that is why you have the ATA add-on card?

This board is only usb1.x. But I also suspect that the usb add-on card that you have is for usb2.0?

As a last note on the ram, the memtest that you have run on the memory modules have just burnt them in. Much line running a car in. The added reason that I personally run memtest for 24 hrs is that it burns-in new ram.

Good Luck

 

PS. As an aside, I noticed that you appear to have connected what appears to be a 120mm (at rear) to a mobo header (adjacent to the cmos battery).

There is a limit to what mobo headers can support before they blow / fail.

My personal guideline after much searching are as follows
1. up to 3.5w ok
2. 3.5w to 4.5w progressively moving into the yellow warning area ie 3.5w to 4.0w yellow, 4.0w to 4.5w very very yellow
3. over 4.5w red (danger Will Robinson danger)

Good Luck

 

I decided to take a leap of faith before doing that. I took the ram out of slot 3 and placed it in slot 2 again [eg: one ram stick in slot 1, the other in slot 2]. WHICH WAS ALWAYS GUARANTEED TO GIVE ME ERRORS.It's been 20 hours and it hasn't failed once. What gives? I was surprised to see that the ram passed a 24 hour test while in slot 1, and slot 3 position. But now I'm dumbfounded as to why it's passed for over 20 hours in slot 1, and slot 2 position.

Any ideas what's going on? Hardware is connected as it always was... How the heck can this be possible? I've never seen positive results this way. Maybe I never tested these positions after optimizing the bios when I started this thread. I'm lost... Clueless! I'm also starting to think that maybe one of the ram copper connectors was dirty and ejecting/inserting cleaned it up? How can I be sure that these results are indeed positive in memtest and not just some fallacy which will later turn into unexpected errors again?

It's actually connected to the same molex strand that powers my vhga, hdd, and front fan. There is however an unused spot to connect a fan next to the cpu fan [which is already connected] on the motherboard.

 

You are positive that the bios settings for ram were 3-3-3-6 (& not 2-2-2-5) when you first tested the ram modules in slot 1 & 2 and got the errors.

Unfortunately, with pcs as you well know the only way to be sure is the fact that it runs with no errors.

As to what else it could be, there are of course lots of other possibilities to include intermittent ram slot problem.

IMO, I would leave the ram modules in slot 1 & 3 irrespective of the results that memtest gives for slot 1 & 2. The user in the thread to which I linked above ran his system for a while with no errors and then began getting problems again.

Personally, I would also move on now to o/s system install / testing.

Good Luck

 

Ok now I know you told me to go ahead and install Xp, than install the latest Via 4-1 drivers, but I'm extremely paranoid when it comes to computers so I did some more tests on my ram. Proper system stability is a must for me. It's something I don't take lightly. By the way sorry for writing back a few days later... You'll understand why I took so long to get back to you as you continue reading.

Here's a recap [as you know - just refreshing your mind] . After building my pc out of new and used parts I experienced frequent reboots, and freezes. Sometimes this would occur every everyday, every few days, or once a week. The problem would arise while using the system, and on rare occasion at boot during the Windows XP logo. Every component in my system is new with the exception for my motherboard, cpu, video card, and hard drive. I assumed it was a ram issue and did testing with Memtest86+ on the two new Patriot brand 512mb Pc133 Sdram modules in my system. Their position was slot 1, and 2 on the motherboard. Testing them in that position always generated a lengthy list of errors. Which is why I started this thread... Since that points to the obvious sign of my ram causing the reboots, and freezes.

You and I than tested/tried/checked/researched many things. & After being sure that the bios had the correct ram timings/settings, you suggested we get to work in solving this matter by trying to swap the ram around on the motherboard slots. The following chart shows our tests results by using the two new Patriot brand 512mb Pc133 Sdram modules, and two old generic brand Sdram modules to draw a comparison with:


--------------------------
Test Results:
[Note: Each test item below is the result of a 24 hour Memtest86+ test on the module(s)]

- Slot 1 & 2 position w/both new ram modules "Total of 1024MB" = Massive List Of Errors (24 Hour Test Runs = 8-10)
(Swapping ram in the opposite position generates the same results. A 24 hour test would pass on rare occasion, though yield failures soon thereafter, or upon a new test run)

- Slot 1 position w/one new ram module "Total of 512MB" = No Errors (24 Hour Test Runs = 5-8)
(Testing with the other stick of new 512MB in the same position generates the same results)

- Slot 2 position w/one new ram module "Total of 512MB" = No Errors (24 Hour Test Runs = 3-4)
(Testing with the other stick of new 512MB in the same position generates the same results)

- Slot 1 & 2 position w/both old ram modules "Total of 192MB" = No Errors (24 Hour Test Runs = 4-6)
(Swapping ram in the opposite position generates the same results)

- Slot 1 & 3 position w/both new ram modules "Total of 1024MB" = No Errors (24 Hour Test Runs = 1-2)
(Surprisingly no errors were reported in this position although this is just the result of a couple tests)
--------------------------



Ok so I was just surprised/curious as to why the new ram passed in slot 1, & 3 position. I thought this could have been the cause of me optimizing my bios, and making sure SPD [aka AUTO] was set for ram timings. So I reran an old slot test sure to give errors, in order to be confident that SPD wasn't something I just missed by accident when the new ram was in slot 1, & slot 2 position at the beginning of my problems. I made sure SPD was set and sure enough the tests FAILED with errors TWICE in a row as you can see below:



TEST ONE - Slot 1 & 2 position w/both new ram modules "Total of 1024MB"
(100% positive SPD bios setting selected)




TEST TWO - Slot 1 & 2 position w/both new ram modules "Total of 1024MB"
(100% positive SPD bios setting selected & ram swapped in opposite slots)



Now I was completely sure that this wasn't the fact that I missed the SPD setting in my bios. These two new tests above were also done with less hardware connected to the power supply [eg: hdd, front & back 120mm fans]. So I said to myself what else is left for me to really test? How can I really be sure that placing the new ram in slot 1, and 3 position will always be fine? Heck it they only passed Memtest86+ in that position a couple of times. I figured it was all too good to be true. SO I RAN THE MOTHER OF ALL TESTS!!!!

I put the new ram in slot 1, and 3 position again. Made sure SPD was set in the bios, and ran those suckers for 70 HOURS STRAIGHT!!!!!! Indeed the longest test I've ever ran on ram. This was the result:



70 HOUR TEST - Slot 1 & 3 position w/both new ram modules "Total of 1024MB"
(100% positive SPD bios setting selected)



Wow well as you can see the test resulted in just one single error! I continuously checked the test run and that single error you see occured somewhere after 24 hours... I don't know what to make of this...

Questions:

1) Does this mean my system is now stable and I should go ahead and install XP, and the Via 4-1 drivers you asked me to?

2) What does a single error mean? I read on some other forum that a user ran a long test and he didn't get errors for a very long time. When he did he assumed it was just a random error that almost anyone would get after running ram for so long. Now he wasn't an expert but this was his comment.

3) Give me any opinions and insight into why only a single error would occur.




Thank You

 

Could be a one off or possibly a host of other intermittent problems ie one of the ram modules has an issue at the Failing Address shown on the memtest screenshot.

I am no exactly sure what Test #7 actually does but a quick search indicates heat or settings issues.

As to whether one should worry about one ram error, well it is better to have no errors than one error (even if that error was a statistical fluke).

What to do from here (and I hope other users with more knowledge will jump in) is to try and run Prime95. That is what I would do at this stage. The third test (of Prime95) tests memory quite a lot, run that for 24hrs.

Other avenues to try:
1. Run memtest again and see if the error occurs at the same address. Given that you know that this occurred on Test #7, you could just run that test continuously.
2. PSU had a hiccup.
3. In the bios under the ram settings, change SPD to manual and manually enter 3-3-3-6
4. Maybe raising the voltage to the ram modules by 0.1v (Maybe check with Patriot first in case this would invalidate the warranty).
5. RMA both ram modules on the basis of an intermittent failure

I personally do not think that the ram slots themselves or the mobo are the problem here.

Good Luck

 

I've been running Test 7 on the ram while they're still in slot 1, and 2. The results so far have been NO ERRORS [with over 16 Memtest passes]. The picture on my previous post shows that memtest failed on test 7 with just one error once with 22 passes. So I'm assuming if I reach 22 passes with my test 7 run right now I should be in the clear somewhat? Since that would make up the same amount of time as the 70 hour test I ran on the sticks, because I'm only doing test 7 no?

Before I started running this test 7 repeatedly, I still had that same default Memtest run going that generated that single error. It was at over 90 hours without even one repeated error. Just that same single error...

My next tests which I wanted to do before I install the o/s was to.

1. Retest ram in slot 1, and 3 position again with default Memtest settings for a few days to see if it generates a single error again, specifically at the same address. It created a single error once already so maybe rerunning this test is pointless?

2. Take the ram sticks out and test them in slot 2, and 4 position for days to see if any errors occur at all. This is a test I have NEVER run.

3. Try entering the timing settings for my ram in the bios manually instead of using SPD like you said.

3. Buy two new sticks of ram with the same specifications, but a different BRAND NAME, and test those out in slots 1, and 2. Than test them in slots 1, and 3. Since this could just be incompatibility issues with the ram.

What do you think?

 

Do you mean slot 1 & 3.

Well you could of course you could rerun memtest with ram in slots 1 & 3 and see if the errors repeats.

Putting ram modules in slots 2 & 4 in my opinion would be similar to placing modules in slot 1 & 3. Apart the sole error that you encountered when running memtest in slot 1 &3, slots 2 & 4 will pass also ie it will not be like placing the modules in slots 1 & 2.

I personally always manually enter the ram settings in the bios.

I instinctively suspect that any compatible ram placed in slots 1 & 2 will fail in much the same way as the patriot modules.

Before rushing out to get new ram modules, I would post a new thread and ask about memtest and the single error. Maybe some users who are more knowledgeable in this field will chip in. It is going to be difficult to get someone to read through this whole thread and perhaps a new thread is a better option.

Good Luck

 

Yes that's what I meant sorry...

right now I have them testing in slots 2 and 4 and will try 1, and 3 again later I guess if this test passes.

I see what you mean... Testing in slot 2, and 4 could be the same. I'll try anyways... That single error in slot 1, and 3's test could have been a psu hiccup like you mentioned before. I'll start a new thread and ask about that. As for now hopefully I get some goof results. I mean the ram in slot 1, and 3's test only failed once in 90 hours. That must have been some sort of psu hiccup or something because the error never repeated itself. Anyways thanks I'm back to work now lunch is over.

 

So far the ram has been testing in slots 2, and 4 for about 50 hours now with no errors. I'm willing to push this test to 100 hours as an extreme check of this ram using the current slot positions.

If it passes with no errors I'll leave em that way and use the pc. But have you ever heard of anyone using two modules on a four dimm socket motherboard in slot 2, and 4 position?

I have no idea if leaving slot 1, and 2 unused degrades performance or not. Because from what I have learned from you in this thread you said the best positioning for two dimm modules is as close to the cpu as possible. [ie: slot 1, and 3]

By the way I recently verified the fact that this new memory is indeed compatible with my motherboard. So this MUST be a slot positioning issue... & possible PSU problem, with that one previous error in slot 1, and 3's test.

 

As I said previously, early Via chipsets had issues with slots 1 & 2. I believe it was to do with the fact that they shared the same memory channel (same goes for 3 & 4). This problem was more evident when using higher capacity modules. From my best recollections of that time, I did read that some people were using slots 2 & 4 but the majority of users found slots 1 & 3 to be optimal.

Personally, the only way to find out what ram modules are compatible with a mobo is by way of user information. What Patriot or Crucial say in respect of compatibility is useful but in my book not definitive. Which is not to say that these Patriot modules are not working fine since they appear to be apart from the single glitch. My money's is on the psu for that glitch (instinctive).

Good Luck

 

Well testing the ram in slots 2, and 4 generated absolutely no errors at all! I didn't run it for 90 hours like I did with the slot 1, and 3 test. But I found 62 hours to be sufficient enough. Because the single error that was generated in slot 1, and 3's test took place during the 22nd Memtest pass. & well slot 2, and 4's test went well beyond pass 22 without any errors.



I don't want to keep the ram in slot 2, and 4 though because it's too far away from the processor. As you said slot 1, and 3 is the optimal choice. The only times I've heard of people using slots 2, and 4 is when the first slot is damaged or along those means. So as a FINAL test I've decided to run Memtest while the ram is in slots 1, and 3 again to see if I don't get any errors. I also agree with you in the single error from the previous test in these positions had to have been a psu hiccup indeed. The psu is a generic $25 piece of no name garbage. It would be expected... If I can get 50-100 hours without a single error in this final test I'll rush out and buy an Antec 80+ certified 500Watt psu and call it a day. Check the Via 4-1 drivers you mentioned and be on my way. Thank you so much for all of your help! I've learned a lot from you in this thread. You have have been very helpful beyond your means. I can now use this learning experience to help others on this site, and people I know. Is there anyway I can donate some money to you? Do you have a Paypal account?



P.s.
I'll post back with results as soon as this test finalizes!

 

As regards PSU choice I would personally go for another make but Antec. The last 2 that I bought over the past few years have packed up in less than a year.

Personally, I would have OCZ and Corsair at the top of my list. Remember what I said earlier about strands (ie numbers) and connectors (configuration & what type) when choosing the psu.

Also remember the power parameters required for your system ie it mainly draws power from the 3.3 & 5v rails with the 12v used mainly to power fans, optical & HDD drives. So you need about 30A+ on 3.3v, 40A+ on the 5.5v the combined 3.3v & 5v rails should be about 230w (215min). The 12v is less important on this system with 18A sufficient but 24A preferable.

Overall this system should not need a psu higher than 420W (with above criteria) but higher (480w) better.

Let me know how memtest unfolds

Good Luck

 

I've had mine for about two years in my main system without any problems. It's the exact one I want to get for the pc I'm building.

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NjU=
[ EA500 - 500 Watt Continuous Power ATX12V v2.2]

Let me know if the specifications on that page are good enough for my new build if you can.

On another note I was downtown today having some food at a local restaurant when I remembered that my favorite pc shop in town was just a couple of blocks away. I figured I'd go there and buy two sticks of 256MB PC133 SDRAM for my new build so I can max all of the slots out. The manual for my Asus motherboard says it can be maxed out to 1.5GB in total using all four dimm slots. & since I already have the two 512MB Patriot's I only needed the aforementioned modules that I ended up buying today. Now here's the bad news... I think I walked out with the wrong ram! :cry



Notice the second stick says CL2? The CL3 stick above it is actually taller than the one below it as well. What a drag now I have to go back to the darn shop. This was my fault since I should have looked at the stickers before I walked out. I asked for the memory, and he just handed me what was at first glance.

The one below is the wrong ram isn't it? Both should have been CL3 to match the specifications of my Patriot 512MB modules correct?

Here's the Patriot specifications again just in case you'd like to refer to them:
http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022149&cid=RAM.346.407

& to make matters even more severe for my wallet I just came home and realized that I can purchase 256MB PC133 CL3 SDRAM modules on ebay for $7 each with free shipping. Compared to the $23 I paid for each of these! ARGHHH!!! This makes me mad! See this is what happens when you shop on impulse. I'll have to take both of these back and buy them off ebay if you confirm that CL3 was the correct one to get. That way I can save $32 overall, which can end up being used to pay for a new psu.


THANKS AGAIN

 

Lost the original text so this is an abridged version

IMO your (older) system require more juice on the 3.3 & 5v rails. The EA500 has 24A & 25A respectively. It has 2 12v rails and this psu is generally for new systems. This is a 500w psu but it delivers that in a different way to the manner in which older 500w psus delivered this. If you see what I mean. The connectors will also include connection for pci-e vga and 12v mobo connector which would not be required. Also try to get a psu with a 20+4 pin atx main power connector (not a 24 pin one) as your mobos atx connector is 20 pin. Perhaps starting a new thread about the psu would be an idea.

EDIT: what you would need is the 420w or 480w version of this Sparkle psu. Look at the specs tab for more info (plus pics of connectors)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103915

The height of the sticks is not too important. The CL rating is. These 2 sticks should work together but the bios would need to be manually configured and not left on SPD as it would be confused.

I am not sure if you rig would be stable (ie no ram errors) with all four ram slots populated. This for reasons already discussed in connection with the Patriot slot selection and also because now you would have 2 different types of ram in a system. I usually do not mix ram from different manufacturers on a board (recipe for disaster).

I use ebay when replacing parts for older systems. I do not have any issues buying ram either. I recently bough 2x 512MB of Corsair Value PC3200 ram at about a third of the new price. They work well (24hr memtest) and I am happy with them.

Good Luck