I've turned

Okay so I been thinking. I have never really been religous. I mean I went to church when I was in school a little bit. But nothing too serious. Anyways, my life isnt TOO bad right now. I have great friends and a wonderful family, but It could be better. A friend of mine has not always had a "christian" like life...or was "christian" like. but he is turning. He was kinda in a dark place, but is now finding his way out. After hearing about how he once was and how he is now. Made me sit here today and think about my life. I am not sure really if I want to be "christian" like. But I do know that I am not sure who is up there, who is the creator of this place we call earth/home. But I would like to. I would like to actually read the bible... and go to church. I want Landyn to be baptised and live a life that I did not. I want Landyn to know of heaven and hell and what the difference is. And I want Landyn to know what a sin is and that sinning is not good. I want him to live a good life. Not saying that if you are not a christian you are not living a good life. But I want Landyn to have that life. Once he is old enough he can make his own decisions on this. But for right now, this is what I want. And I can not make him do something that I myself am not willing to do. Therefore I have made a decision. It will be a slow transision... but I am going to start going to church and reading the bible and learn more about what is actually up there and not what everyone else says. I am 21, I want to know for sure where I am going when I die, and I want to know where my son is going before I die.

what do you guys think? I am open to all of you opinions... let me hear em!!!

 

A friend of mine turned, a similar reason, he saw the change in his brother then went himself. He spoke of the dark place too. I think if you need to do that then do it. Bringing your son up with or without religion won't make difference on how he turns out. That's up to you.

 

Well, I was pretty much raised a Christian, but now I am an agnostic. I do hold a strong belief that you should always know as much as you can about whatever you believe in, especially if you have always been affiliated with a church, but never quite understood why. I think what you are doing is great, but my advice is that you don't block out other faiths if Christianity doesn't seem to work for you any longer. Also, don't make your son convert with you, let him be free in his decision. When he is older, he will definately respect you for it once he realizes what you've done for him. Good luck in your search!

 

Opinions will no doubt vary, a lot, but I think you're doing the right thing. Both for yourself and for your son. You can't simply "teach" morals and ethics to kids, you have to live them. They generally have excellent BS detectors, and will not buy it. And early is the time to start, as kids learn and firm up their personal values at an early age. The choice you're making is the one I made years ago, and I don't regret it a bit.

A couple of suggestions. Find a church that you're comfortable in, and with. Church should be a joy, not a duty. Get one of the modern Bible translations to read, unless you're comfortable with the old-style Middle English that King James was written in. It will be easier to get the meaning of things. And start with the New Testament, at Matthew, not at Genesis. Old Testament is good, but it's not the place to start, as it is a LOT of history, much of it fairly dry.

A quote from C.S. Lewis, from many years ago:

"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

And a paraphrase from Lewis, which I can't lay my finger on at the moment:

Even if I'm wrong about Christianity, and there is nothing at the end of this road but final darkness, I'll have lived a better life for having followed it's teachings.

 

I edited GT's quote a little, to emphasize the points I would have said. For a newer Bible version I suggest " The American Standard Bible, 3rd edition" for initial understanding and clarity, and the King James version for the beauty of the writing. Both are online for free I believe, but I annotate my American standard version heavily, and prefer a real book. Also keep in mind that the meaning of what you read often "enlarges" as your understanding and experience grow, and thus the reading is always new, in some sense.
Especially pay attention to GT's statement that Church should be a joy not a duty, and in fact all of your studies and reading should bring you joy.
You have a truly marvelous experience ahead !!!

 

don't be afraid to ask questions.

 

I'ts all about FAITH!!!! You can "learn" all you want about it, but that is not necessarilly "believing"!!!! And you don't HAVE to go to church to learn or believe in what your are pusuing, however, for many it seems to help them stay on the right track...and they like mingling with the fellowship, so it is definately beneficial to many to go to church, but it is not a must, in order to become saved and move onto a better place!!

If it is all there at the end...EXCELLENT, if not...then it helped MANY people live a clean & moral life!!!!

Roger

 

Sounds good Smiles. As usual, GT covered just about everything I would want to say, and probably said it more concisely as well (you're da best GT).

I found a church finder for you to play around with. You're in Columbus, right? http://www.usachurch.com/ohio/columbus/churches.htm If not, you can change the city to where you're at. I've felt most at home at Vineyard, Evangelical and Non-Denominational churches (our current church is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church), but some of the more traditional churches are great and family oriented as well. I'd look for something that has a lot of programs for young families and youth since that's your main motivation. Sometimes a church will even have a small group for single mothers. Do a little church shopping. Make a list and visit a different church every Sunday until you find the one that you feel most at home with. I've been to churches that feel way too dry and traditional for me and I've been to some that were so wild and charismatic that I felt uncomfortable. Of course there are good people at both extremes who truly love God, but I'm just not as much at home at either of those places. I do lean more towards the contemporary church service, mildly charismatic with more upbeat music. There's an excitement there that I enjoy being around. It actually gives me a lift that helps me through my week. Let us know how it goes.

 

i have always known, from early childhood, that not only was there GOD, but that somehow GOD knew me and loved me. this was not something i was taught, (both my parents are athiest) it was simply something i knew. however over my life i have often come into conflict with the churches i have attended. the result of one such conflict was that i read the bible from page one through to the last page of revelations. at that time the 'dark place' i was in covered my soul like a thick and stifling black blanket. as i read the word, and although i had read lots of it at various times before, each page lifted me, and filled me with a light and a sweetness that was like someone giving me a spoonful of honey each day, until by the time i had finished i was full to overflowing. the very next conflict i had with the churches was the fact that they do not encourage people to simply read the bible as it is. although i agree that some of the old testament is rather disturbing, and some is just plain boring, it is the backdrop that the new testament shines against. i believe that all god wants is an invitation, so pick up a bible, any bible (i believe i read the one god intended me to read) and start one book at a time, remembering that the bible is not a book, or even a whole story, its many books and many stories. (i have to admit to skipping through some of the prophets though ) without doubt this is going to be the most exciting thing you have ever experienced, and i wish you all the love and joy there is. as for the 'church' itself, the divisions within it and the pressures to conform to it often leads one further away from love instead of nearer to it. i agree with the idea of 'shopping around' although when i did that, i must admit to meeting opposition at the idea of choosing a faith the same way you choose a restaurant. remember that GOD made you, and your faults, fears, and uncertainties are somehow part of that makeup. faith is simple. being at peace with who you are is not. my prayers and aloha are with you. enjoy the journey.

 

I too, have made the decision about 11 years ago, and I don't regret any of it. It's not about dogma, or converting people, it's about a way of life and code of ethics that makes sense wether you're a Christian or not.

As for definite answers to the ultimate questions of life, death and the Universe - well just be prepared for it, and life in general to be a continuous, growing experiences.. There are no ultimate answers, and the questions are more important than our conclusions.

I've been in 'the dark place', studied science professionally, thought I was too smart for it, etc, but then finally realised that spiritual beliefs and science can, and do compliment each other if approached rationally.

Go to church, read the Bible, etc because it help you, and your loved ones, not because of any so-called 'religious' obligations. And be prepared to reach your own conclusions, while still appreciating the ethics and support of Christianity. That's what I did. And yup, lead by example, not by 'converting'.

I also attend, basically non-denominational family orientated church, since it's about changes and growth within the inner self, not what denomination, or sect one is. Even our Pastor will often say "I hate religion, but I love the Lord!", in his sermons, LoL!

Anyway, you are heading in the right direction, i.m.o. Everything to gain, and nothing to loose, as they say.

If the church is anywhere near half decent, it will support you, and you child from many levels (friendship, advice, food, money if needed). If they're prepared to put the money where their mouth is, there most always a pretty good church.

 

well put phantom. aloha

 

If false, it's of great importance.

Countless wars have been fought, people have been killed, tortured and burnt at the stake all in the name of religion or a particular god.

Not to mention the money spent, and people who have dedicated their lives to it.

To say all that is of no importance if false is ridiculous.


I understand the spirit (no pun intended) of the quote, but it isn't realistic.


Sorry Smiles if it's a bit off topic, but the above quote stood out.

 

(shrug) If false, it's no more important than any other human foible, religion or otherwise, which men have fought and wasted time/money/blood over. Communism has a MUCH worse record than Christianity. Men have done bad things under every conceivable banner, which only proves that there have been bad men in the world, which is no shock. Who would you rather have a a neighbor, me or Pol Pot?

 

It's not a contest, and there is no mention of a comparison to other human foibles or shortcomings.

Nor does it have anything to do with which neighbour I'd like.

It simply stated that if Christianity was false, it wasn't of great importance.

It's great having catchy sayings and quotes, but they aren't always accurate or depict actual history.


Even if there was a contest, Religion has caused more deaths and torment than Pol Pot or communism combined and multiplied......


For the record, although I'm not religious and can't understand how seemingly intelligent people believe in fairy tales, most people that adopt it's philosophy as a way of life are decent and honourable.

That in itself, can't be a bad thing.

 

Many perceive Religion as Brain washing

 

I take my brain out & wash it every weekend.

Right or wrong, I try to make my own decisions. While I generally lean towards conservative ideas/opinions, I do NOT agree with all things conservative, and disagree strongly with some things on BOTH sides. Which annoys some on both sides.

Any dogma or belief system can be considered brainnwashing, from the various religions, to communism or fascism, to radical environmentalism, to hard-core conservative/liberal doctrines, to the radical conspiracy theorists, to you name it. ANY group with an axe to grind will generally try to get you to believe their set of pet beliefs, and to ignore all opposing views.

Any intelligent and aware person should study all sides of any important issue, and come to his/her own conclusions. That's more work than a lot of people want to bother with though. We won't all come to the same conclusions, but at least we'll pick our own courses with our eyes open. I respect someone more who disagrees with me intelligently, explaining his position logically, than someone who agrees with me but has no clue WHY he believes what he does.

But as supposedly mature adults, we should all be able to agree, disagree, discuss, and differ in our opinions without being either angry or insulting. Real discussion, involving differing views and opinions, seems to be a dying art these days. People all to often just end up yelling at each other, in so many words. Even in the media. Oh well.

 

Amen.

 

far from brainwashing, a great many people's religious convictions are built on deeply personal experiences. one of the great miracle's is that GOD finds a way to address the individual, IN SPITE OF the dogma's that surround us. this is one reason that faith can be held so strongly in the face of all criticism, derision, and even persecution. aloha as always

 

Does that mean the brain is dirty enough to need a good washing?

 

everyone should know

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/goody2shoes2003/yesido.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/goody2shoes2003/yes.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/goody2shoes2003/doyoubelieve.gif

 

LOL. Well, welcome to the club. Enjoy the journey.

 

I dont know why when people are going through a rough patch they have to turn to religion,I just accept life for what it is no matter how bad it makes me feel,thats life,sometimes it sucks!

You arnt gonna find out whats 'up there' by reading a 2000 year old book written by men,if there is something up there we'll all find out when we go

I dont believe telling someone they are going to hell for doing wrong is the right way to go,scaring someone into not 'sinning' teaches a selfish value the protection of ones own hide Also I think its wrong to teach someone they will be rewarded for doing good,again this teaches a selfish value, you should get payed for doing good,we should do good because it makes us feel good doing it,it makes us feel good knowing we have helped someone out.These values were needed thousands of years ago to keep the masses of unintelligent people in line and ease the amount of force needed to keep children and the populace in check,they were also used to form groups a set of people with the same thinking,this was great for defence as people would band together for protection like is prison join a gang or die but we dont need protecting in civilized society, this causes so many problems in todays modern world as it has done all throughout history with all religions

IMHO they arnt needed if you instill values into your child of respecting other peoples feelings and property, others of course which could be a nice stripped down version of many of the bibles teachings as I agree with alot of them, but many are outdated and often dont work in our modern world as is true for all religions,a specific set of values customised to what I think a good person is,is the way I'm gonna go

I'm not religious at all,I was brought up with the freedom of choice my mum being christian and my Dad atheist "I dont even like the atheist goup\label,we need less groups\labels in our world." I have come to my own conclusion even with the external pressure to become christian,I read the bible ALOT as a child,sang,prayed every day in school,was given the new testament in high school as a gift from school,it was about that time I knew for sure religion was too much for me to take on 'faith'

I respect both my mums and my Dads view,thye have brought me up well I like to think I'm a good person,I dont lie,cheat,steal I'm kind to everyone and everything,if there is a heaven and I havnt lived a good enough life or because I aint read the bible enough or gone to church then God isnt the kind of person I'd wanna hang with,I dont like big headed people

My take on the situation smiles,good luck with your new faith

 

Rikky, there are some points in your post that have me absolutely speechless; I don't know where you get some of your logic, but it's truly "unique".

 

I'm not reading it, in case I don't like it. I can't disagree with someone with that avatar...

 

I can point out some shining examples myself MA. Both clergy and laity. But I also work with some hypocrites, have noticed them of lots of other groups and organizations, and have even seen one or two pop in here from time to time.

Hypocricy isn't a function of religion, it's a function of disfunctional people, wherever you may find them. The're everywhere. I think it's just more glaringly offensive to find them in an environment where people are EXPECTED to behave better. Whether it's the boot-licker at work that brown noses the boss but doesn't do his work, or smiles at your face and stabs you in the back, or the church-goer that acts nice on Sunday but like the Devil the rest of the week, I don't like it either. But ultimately, we're not responsible for how other people act, we're responsible for how we act. All we can do is the best that WE can do. All those other folks will have to answer for themselves.

 

One doesn't have to go to church to see hypocrasy, it's pretty much everywhere these days. I agree many people decide to look to God for help and a "convenient" time, usually when they are sitting in a chair with a lot of juice ready to go through them. I'm also not surprised at how many people decide to dedicate their lives to God just as the guilty verdict is being announced. I guess better late thatn never. Killing in the name of God will never end, as long as there is a believer with a weapon that will pretty much be a given. Sin has always been big business, and the church seems at times to try and counter it by becoming even bigger business. I lived in North Carolina during the infamous "Jim & Tammy" days; those two believed in God about as much as I believe in the tooth fairy. They had no skills, other than a golden tongue and oversized tear-ducts, and it made them millions because they appealed to those that are vulnerable to get sucked in by people like that. People, by nature, tend to try to find a reason for their failures and weaknesses by looking for an escape instead of looking in the mirror.

I choose to believe because I frankly don't think this all happened by accident. Someone created all this, it didn't create itself. And the destruction of all this isn't limited to just the bombs or the wars or the natural disasters, it's caused my misinterpretation, by ignorance, by fanaticism, by greed, et. al. I believe I'd be pretty disappointed if I gave this world to you and you destroyed it, because that's the direction it's headed. It's not one man's fault, because there isn't just one man with fault. We can either work to save it, or just let it die.

 

I agree with what you are saying, but doesn't the Bible itself say that all you have to do to go to heaven is admit your sins, and accept that Jesus Christ is your saviour, regardless of what you have done?

At least that's my understanding, and it's one of the many hypocrisies and ridiculous claims the Bible makes.

Not to mention the wild stories that are simply unbelievable.

I'm more than happy to change my view, but I when I question a so-called knowledgeable person on the Bible, I'm simply told it was a miracle, it's Gods way, or to simply have faith.


And the same church, who should be encouraging people, and answering these questions, are the worst offenders.

The catholic church is responsible for millions of deaths to this day, by telling people in developing countries that the AIDS virus is so small, that it can travel through a condom. (the AIDS virus is in fact one of the largest viruses known and cannot travel through latex)

Forget science, faith in God, and abstinence is their answer, and that has led to millions of infections and deaths in developing, but devoutly religious third world countries.

It's only this recent pope, Pope Benedict, who has slowly accepted that condoms are the only realistic prevention we currently have.

Not to mention the dozens of cases of paedophile priests who are simply transferred to another parish, their victims ostracised from the church, or given a few hundred dollars and made to sign a confidentiality agreement.


And these are the people and institutions that are supposedly the voice of God?

No thanks.


What annoys me even more are the ones who say they feel sorry for those that don't have God in their life, or that without God you can't be a moral and decent person.


/End of rant.

 

I always hear the same arguments, both pro and con, for religion, Atheism, and other belief systems.

Atheists will try and tell me that Christianity is based on dogma, ignorance and scare tactics, and that Christians are somehow too naive and ignorant to understand the real world, or too 'weak' to handle life’s inevitable bad times.

Some Christians will try and tell me anyone who doesn't think and act like them is evil, and also ignorant, naive and afraid.

Agnostics will try and tell me that somehow, a non-committal sitting on the fence makes them wiser than everyone else.

Well, there are indeed people like that on, and in all walks of life, but over simplistic generalizations, and thereby incorrectly labelling people, doesn't prove or disprove any way of life, or belief system.

I always get the old, "Well people commit all sorts of wars and atrocities in the name of 'Religion - look at the Inquisition etc.". True, but doing things in the so-called name of God, or Allah doesn't mean they are doing God's work. If it involves violence and destruction, it's a sure thing they aren't. In any case, I sure as heck didn't kill or torture anybody, nor did any member of my family (who, apart from my wife, aren't Christians by any means, b.t.w.) So how does that make my personal beliefs wrong?

My personal beliefs remain just that - personal, I don't preach them, because I'm of the view that everyone should discover their own personal journeys in life, whatever they may be. In fact, very few people know what I truly think because most are great at talking, but fall short at listening skills. Which brings me on to the other major criticism I get. Never did believe in co-called ‘converting’, by Christians, Atheists, Nature worshipers, Cookware salesmen, or anyone else who has the "You gotta think like me" mentality.

As for Biblical interpretation, the Bible is a miniature library of many books, with many more not included, and is written for multiple purposes, and meant to be interpreted on many plains. People who take it a word for word 'literal' do fall into theological problems, yes - especially since even a so-called literal reading can, and does have numerous interpretations.

Personally, I think anyone who dismisses science is holding a very limited perspective on his/her existence. People who think science is the only, and complete explanation for the cosmos and their existence are equally limited, i.m.o.

If something makes scientific, metaphysical, or 'spiritual sense, and common sense, and is pragmatically verified by real and definite effects, or outcomes, I regard it as a truth. Not always physically provable to others, but then again, I'm not about proving myself to others, but just simply being the best person one can be, in a truly holistic sense, and create as much good and enhance as many lives as possible. Not because I'm a saint, but because, it's better to do so, that not.

I have no hesitation of rejecting a church Pastor, or Elder if I think they are talking poppycock, just as I have no hesitation in rejecting anyone else who basis their speech and/or actions on irrational thinking. I also believe there is something to be learnt from everyone.

 

Actually, no. Salvation is key, yes, but it does NOT stand alone. Repentance is also key, although a lot of folks today don't focus on repentance, as that can get uncomfortable, and sometimes difficult. And a lot of us don't like difficult.

Acts 2:38 says "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven;"
Acts 3:19 says "Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out,"
Acts 8:22 "Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and the chains of wickedness.”

Repentence is more than just regretting. It implies making CHANGES, and making things right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repent

Galatians 5:
The Works of the Flesh
16Live by the Spirit, I say, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are obvious: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, 21envy,£ drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The Fruit of the Spirit
22By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things. 24And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25If we live by the Spirit, let us also be guided by the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, competing against one another, envying one another.

The concept of repentence, and the command TO repent, and to live a GOOD life, is woven all through the Bible.

Christianity is not a "Get out of jail free" card, it's a guide to living, and eventually dying. But it's much more about how to LIVE than how to die.

 

This is the main reason the bible doesnt fly with me,the things that were thought wrong then we now know arnt wrong,its outdated,as a moral compass I find it a bad guide in many repects

They may have thought they were obvious back then but we know better now

Sex is the reason we are here we should have as much sex as possible,its fun,it doesnt harm anyone and is good for our health

We now know chemistry isnt evil,its good for mankind,it isnt used to summon demons

We now know that disagreeing with ones piers is a good thing which promote democracy our world,it see's the best people are in the right places if they cant argue their position they shouldnt be there "our current polititions excluded" this was a great 'sin' for the time as people could use it to stay in power

We now know that factions political parties are good for debate, they promote debate,a group of people with like minded opinions can argue a point in much more detail

one of my favourite things I cant go with the bible just for this reason ,no one gets hurt,everyone has a good time Until someone shouts lets do some takila shots!

Already from a small peice of the bible I'm picking and chosing which things are right,So whats the point of me reading it? I can pick and chose what I think is right and wrong in the everyday world,preemptively deciding whats right in the bible doesnt help me make the right decision,I still have to chose at some point and come up with moral descision based on my feelings for my fellow human being,not on the" inherting the kingdom of God" carrot,I dont want to be in a heaven which a load of people who were good just because they wanted to go to heaven their motivation for 'goodness' is gone as they are there,heaven would be full of selfish people who wont give me my turn on the Harp

 

Actually, yes, read your own link.

It says what I said, repentance in a religious context simply means to repent for your sins and you must admit guilt.

Googling a few words doesn't answer the many inconsistencies of the Bible.

Neither does posting biblical Psalms.



Anyway, according to you and the Bible, someone could be a mass murderer and child molester, then repent etc, and they go to heaven.

Yet a person who doesn't believe, but has led a decent and moral life and helped others, doesn't get to go to heaven?


What sort of God or belief is that? Someone explain that to me?



BTW Rikky, you should change your avatar to 34-3 with an Aussie flag.

 

A reply to your first statement, yes, a person such as that COULD go to heaven. Its not only just repenting your sins however, its changing your lifestyle. You cant just keep doing bad things and repent, over and over, expecting that its acceptable in God's eyes. He will forgive you, repeatedly, but salvation requires a change, sometimes drastic, of heart and mind. You cant keep living an immoral lifestyle and expect to get into heaven. It sometimes confuse me too but i think i understand the gist of it.

Some of the strongest Christians that I know are not the ones who have been raised as such but those who have converted. I cant speak from that second point of view as I myself have been raised a Christian but I do know from talking to people who have "turned" that it dramatically changed their life for the better. Religion doesnt erase all your problems, but it does help you deal with them.

You must not only repent your sins but also BELIEVE that Jesus, God's son, came to Earth to die for your sins.

For anyone to forgive you for all the crap you're done in your life (we all have) id say that he is one pretty freakin awesome God. Its his unconditional love that allows him to accept us, no matter how good or bad your life has been. (Sorry if this isnt making much sense or just sounds like a mindless rant but im kinda brain-dead due to finals )

Rikky, some of your ideas there totally blow me away:

-Sorcery is not chemistry, it involves "magic" (spirits)
-sex was created not for pleasure but to create life: use it wisely

as for the other stuff, its not that you're physically OK, its morality that should define your lifestyle

 

I never said it was just repenting. In fact, I never used that word till it was mentioned.

My point is, if someone admits theirs sins, and accepts Jesus Christ as their saviour (and does whatever else is required), then that person goes to heaven, regardless of what crimes they have previously committed.

Yet an atheist, who is otherwise a moral and decent person and has dedicated his or her life to helping others, doesn't and burns in hell?

You call that an awesome God, yeah right.

 

I think the most important point is much evil has been done in the name of religion, but not in the spirit of God. As Phantom's preacher so clearly put it, "I hate religion but I love the Lord". Anytime a heirarchy develops and bureacracy is put in place and personal gain is available, abuses occur.
Some of the early Popes were absolute scoundrels (the Medici's, for example).

I belong to no formal church, just a group of people and friends that like to try and explore faith, and live with integrity in a confusing world.

 

Not exactly. After you admit your sins and accept Jesus, you are ALSO instructed to go forth and sin no more.

Christianity is unique in saying that NO ONE is beyond all hope. Regardless of what you have done in the past, God can forgive you if you accept him. The best explanation I ever heard was to imagine a loving parent, who simply says, (regardless of what the child has done), "Believe me , I love you. "
Gods grace is freely available to all. It cannot be earned, bought or stolen. It simply must be recognized and accepted with a true heart.

That does not mean that a mass murderer who truly accepts Christ deserves no punishment on earth for his deeds. But God will decide his ultimate fate.

 

THANKS YOU Slider, you made that sound so much better than i did lol

 

Then Christianity is wrong and not very realistic.

Using your own parents analogy, even some parents disown their own children and admit their is no hope for them.


As I said, I'm not against anyone who is religious, but it's not a one size fits all either.

 

(partial ) Quote from Rikky: "You arnt gonna find out whats 'up there' by reading a 2000 year old book written by men,if there is something up there we'll all find out when we go "

As St Augustine so eloquently put it, (paraphrasing loosely )

"The question is not whether there is a life after death, but whether there is a life after birth."

How God decides to judge people is beyond us. As the book of Job so eloquently puts it ( again, paraphrasing loosely): " I have created the heavens and the earth, and all that is in them. Who the heck are you to question my actions ?"

I do not believe that all things in the Bible are to be taken literally. When reading the Bible, it is with the hope the God will help me understand his words, written by inadequate humans - inadequate because they have to put into words ideas whose meaning cannot be expressed in such a crude way. We can only hope to get a sense of what was meant.

To express it in more modern terms, the bible is ink and paper, and God is a multimedia , 3D, technicolor event. A poor analogy, but I am an inadequate writer as well.

PS - last post for me on religion. It is a touchy subject for too many people, and ultimately a personal matter that cannot be explained, just experienced.

 

My idea on summoning spirits in those time would throwing some metal oxide ect 'or whatever they had that gives a cool effect' into a fire and watching the flames change colour,then chanting for a spirit,the change of the flame colours or whever would be a sign the deamon has been summond,any nice chemistry effect would work and therefore not be allowed,this what I would consider to be thought of as sorcery,chanting alone wouldnt produce an effect which is the only thing that would convince people sorcery works,as we now know it doesnt which make it moot peice of advice anyway

If god didnt want us to have sex out of wedlock he wouldnt have made it so much fun,people cant go without sex,to just considering people could hold out until they are married is just silly,I also doubt a god would have made us able to have sex way before we're old enough to know our ass from our elbow we can physically have sex at around the age of 13,is it wise for this responsibility to fall on such an unexperienced mind?I dont think so its took a human law to try and curb sex at such a young age,but even that doesnt stop 'em' kids will be kids,they wanna try stuff

Also I'd love to use it wisely I just cant find any girls that want to use it wisely with me

 

No wonder you aren't getting any.........

 

Kids want to try all KINDS of stuff too early, from sex to driving, to shooting, to climbing dangerous rock faces, to explosives (at least small ones). Parents have been curbing the kids wilder urges all through history. As far as kids and sex, kids today are sexualized by our current culture far younger than they used to be. And are physically maturing faster. Girls reach menarche far younger than in earlier generations; partly due to some of the non-natural stuff in our diets. Kids did NOT always want to have sex at 13, and a century ago, most girls weren't fertile until after that. And through most of history, people married younger than today; it didn't take 12 years of school, plus maybe another 4 for college to learn how to support yourself in simpler times.

As far as not being able to resist.... My first sex was on my wedding night, and I haven't had any since I was divorced. Hasn't killed me or made me constipated yet. "Can't" doesn't figure into it. Married couples who, due to illness or injury or whatever, can't have sex anymore manage to live and love without physical sex. Not all, but then not all married people that DO have sex have the self-discipline to say no to other people. And a lot of divorce cases are created because of that lack of self-control. Sex is NOT free. It causes unwanted kids, it causes strife between couples, it causes endless headaches with jealousy, envy, feelings of betrayal, suspicion, and regret. And sex with multiple partners spreads STDs, including the incurable ones. Your view is much too simplistic.

And on that note, I'm bowing out as well. Both religion and politics can go on forever, or until a mod decides to close it. Night all.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how it went from religion and the bible, to sex.

Not complaining, just wondering.

 

This is my whole point the bible doesnt work today,whatever happend in days of yore are gone,this is the world we have like it or not,you can have sex with out having a child or passing on a desease using contaception,for someone to have sex just for the pleasure with someone they like isnt a great crime,we no longer have to sign up to be christian before we can have sex and hand the church a big fat check I hear they can see Rome from Space now

And theres the till 'death do us part' it just doesnt work,maybe we live too long now ect.whatever the reason,being with one person for the rest of your life is a noble idea and promise but is unrealistic,shit happens

Its sex not rocket science

 

The key word is believe. Do you want to teach your child to "believe" in heaven and hell? What does the brain do with that? Once you've taught a child to believe in something it can't verify with its own experience, it has a hard time distinguishing what it does experience from what it is supposed to experience. If going to church or religion is a necessity for socialization, then it's harder to get around.
abri

 

Well ABRI- I guess i used the wrong words. I will take my son to church and all i can do is hope that when he is old enough to make his own choices, he will make the right one. and not saying that if he chooses not to go to church that he will be making the wriong choice, but another one that he made for himself. that is all...

and RICKKY- it is clear that you are not open minded and i am almost speechless on what you have had to say. If you do not like the BIBLE and what it means/stands for then why post here? you are just looking for an arguement. and that also shows that you are not mature enough for a thread like this. Thank you but your narrow minded thoughts are not welcome if you ar going to bash anyone or anything in here... so please be nice or shush... lurk if you please.... but dont say anything!

Star... LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ya kinda contradicted yourself there mate check your original post ,I'm, open minded, by dismissing my opinion you yourself are being closed minded,I have done nothing be look at the points made by the bible and logically looked at the pros and cons,if I were closed minded I would say something like "I dont care what people of religion think" which absolutely the opposite of what I believe,am and have shown in my posting

I like you want answers we have just chosen diffent paths to find those answers,no more ,no less,I'm willing to look at all routes to those answers that follow logic,once the path stray from logic we're just making it up as we go along,maybe we're searching for a different kind of answer or we have decided what the answer is already and are looking for route that fits,who knows

As I said I'm not looking for an arguement,I'm looking for answers just as you are,I openly admit the bible has answers as I have agreed in this thread to many of its teachings just much fewer than some other people may have which is where christanity doesnt hold water 'For me'

I can see this is a very emotional subject to you an my answers have maybe scared you I dont know but its your thread,even though you have asked for peoples opinions its now clear 'your' mind is closed and your decision is made,I truely wish you good luck,I hope its the answer your looking for,I'm just one of the unlucky one who'll have to keep searching,its your thread I'll respect your wishes and not post again

Best regards your Atheist friend Rikky

 

Star,
Sorry if I offended you. In the area of the midwest where my parent's live, I've been watching cathedrals spring up, campuses built, churches that seat 3000 people, memberships of 6000 people, professional orchestras for the entertainment of the congregations and, of course, to get people's money coming in. I don't think this is the sense of Christianity at all. If you did nothing for your child but teach him to love thy neighbor as thyself, he would have everything he needed to get on in the world.
I wish you well.
abri

 

yea i guess i did didnt i... hmm pfft