Keylogging- is what i've done legal

I have used a key logging software on my own personal laptop which I know is legal, I did not use spy ware but commercial logging software. At my school the technicians will let students use the wireless for laptops however not for our Ipod touch's. The technicians will type in the password on the laptop but will not tell us it. I left key-logging software running on my personal laptop and then asked them to type the password in. so that I could have the password for my Ipod. Is this legal or not, my school are trying to claim it is hacking and theft of the password. however I did not use spy-ware or hack.

 

please post back asp as my school are trying to screw me

 

You're asking people to render a legal decision, ostensibly in your favor so you may use this as a defense.
You connected your ipod to their wireless against the rules, and got caught. I think that sums it.

 

You are screwed:-D I shouldn't laugh I know but its the only way I can cope with situations like this.

A phrase your need to learn off by heart " I misinterpreted the rules." then whatever they say in reply say "I know now I made bad decision,in future I need to exercise better judgement."

References

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick#Illegal_sideline_videotaping

 

Good advice Rikky. Kinda falls under the "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission", problem is, forgiveness may still accompany punishment.:wave

 

I'm assuming you didn't bother to mention that you were using keylogging software, nor that you wanted them to type in the password purely so you could use it to use the school's network in a manner they have specifically prohibited.

In the real world, you could actually be brought up on criminal charges. Count yourself lucky if they only suspend you.

 

Those phrases are used extensively by politicians and celebrities when asking for the public's forgiveness,the first " I misinterpreted the rules' is a kind of workaround to admitting what you did was wrong while also diminishing the mistake to a poor decision,I find it kind of amusing.

Its easy to gloat at Bladeds predicament but I do have sympathy,a suspension is a huge blot on an academic record/CV not mentioning the lost schooling so that's punishment enough IMO.

We are a help forum after all so I'm gonna assume your a good kid Bladeds and this was just one mistake, what you need to do now is admit to yourself what you did was wrong 'I know it sounds corny' then admit to your peers that what you did was wrong,prepare a written statement explaining that you misinterpreted the rules 'which you actually have' then read it out apologising to them and let them know how you feel in letting them down.

Don't ask for your punishment to be lifted they won't believe your sincere and that's above all what they want from you but you can't do any of this until you SINCERELY admit to yourself you were wrong and trust me I know how hard that can be when your a young stubborn kid with a little intelligence.

Not admitting your guilt will only make this situation worse for yourself which I'm sure you don't want,if you follow my advice there's a SLIM chance they will let you back to school to catch up with what you've missed.

Good Luck

 

Oh no, we can still gloat.

Circumventing the security of a school's or company's network is something that corporations will fire you for and school punish you severely for. They put this in the rules that all students/employees are required to read before they're allowed to use the network. So you knew you weren't supposed to do what you did, and you certainly will not be able to claim ignorance. Everyone knows you were told it's not allowed, so if you forgot or just didn't listen that's on you and not on them.

Good luck trying to explain to the panel of judges why you need a key logger on the laptop in the first place, by the way. They will assume there is no other reason for you to have it than to record school network passwords, and they would probably be right. Unless you want to build your defense on claiming that you forget your own passwords so often you need them recorded, of course...

Bottom line is that getting caught making a stupid mistake that you should have realized would have very negative consequences, has very negative consequences. Welcome to the real world. Your school is not trying to screw you over, they're teaching you the basic universal law of cause and effect in the hopes that you'll become a smarter person in the future. If I had done this to my employer I would be fired and facing criminal charges. You are getting off light if all they hit you with is a suspension.

So I have no sympathy at all, no more than I'd have for a person who filled his brain pan with gasoline because there was no sign at the pump telling him not to. Some things are so obviously stupid that even the average human being realizes they shouldn't be done. rolleyes

 

May i just ask, bladeds, how did you get caught?

I mean, how'd they know it was you?

 

In a sense it is. After all, forging your parent's signature never gave you access to the database with grades, financial information, or any other legally classified data. So for that reason, schools punish any form of hacking or security circumvention severely, and that, once again, is why what Bladeds did is so stupid. :-D Think of it as being caught breaking into school property, if you want a good analogy for 70's "pranks". Now that would not have been treated nearly as leniently as a forged signature on a permission slip...

 

I agree all he did was try to get Tinternet on his Ipod so he could look cool nothing malicious.

He's hardly tryna bring down the US defense department.:-D

 

I'm not. I'm merely trying to spell out why the school will... Most large institutions will assume that a student using a key logger to circumvent this rule, it's a matter of time before he uses more crafty means to get access to confidential information and give his grades a bit of a boost. They'll bring out the big hammer of justice to make an example of him, as a warning to the rest of the students, if nothing else.

As far as I'm concerned Bladed's biggest crime is that he's an idiot who didn't pay attention to the section of the rules that spelled out what happens if you break them. His biggest problem is that the school whose rules he broke is not going to see it that way.. something that he by the way would need to be an idiot not to realize.

 

Sigh, when will people learn? Never probably. But obviously they forbid it because they understand Apple is evil. Why?

Because Apple is 'virus-proof' there's no Anti-virus software so running it through the network leaves open a work around for anyone with the energy to do it. So they're right to ban them from the network. And they'd be right in calling the police on you.

Moral: Since thou got caught, thou obviously can't hack it.

 

This is true Rikky but a rule is a rule.

It matters not whether you steal a brand new Mustang from a dealer or a chocolate bar from the corner store. The offense is the same. Differing degree's of the same offense, but the offense is the same.

My son and a couple of his friends thought it would be cool to "Bypass" school security in order to install Halo (the game, not our buddy here lol) , the things that they didn't consider is problems it may cause to school systems/networks.

This offense of the Ipod thing is all well and good, done for a laugh or some such , but what happens if/when it causes issues on the system?
Who pays for the damage and repair?

Rules are rules, if you break them, accept the consequences like a man.
"Yes I did it, I know I was wrong."
No point in apologizing since the apology is fake, you're only sorry because you got caught.

On the grand scale of things this is pretty insignificant, but thats how it always starts.

"Oh I'll just have 1 beer and drive home"
5 beers later and you killed someone on the way home.

Little different I know, but same principle.

 

No point in apologizing since the apology is fake, you're only sorry because you got caught

Isn't that when contrition usually starts?http://bestsmileys.com/waving/2.gif

 

Well to me an apology should be because you are genuinely sorry for what harm you have caused, when you wish you could take it back because you feel guilt about doing it.

To me a genuine apology comes with an admission of guilt without being caught.

Example: I once broke a car windows being stupid and throwing stones. I could have run away like my mates did, but instead I knocked on the door and apologized.

If you do something intentionally then you will not be sorry nor feel guilt because you intended to do it. The only regret you will feel is once you have been caught, if you never get caught you will never be sorry. Maybe in your own conscience but if you genuinely feel bad for doing it then the only true way to alleviate your guilt is to own up.

Or something to that effect :-D

 

Simple, No... You decieved the IT people for your own good.

Now, the IT people that you deal with aren't the smartest people in the entire world.

 

Wow... quite the thread here, Have to say that I agree with most of it. Again, the problem is similar to (I think we've heard that before, but bear with me) the whole marijuana argument... that it is a gateway.

I am not advocating illegal use of herbal supplements, but if you listen to the people who tell you that you shouldn't they tell you that it is a gateway drug, that sooner or later, you're going to want a better high, and then you start sing other, nastier drugs. Not necessarily true for everyone, but for some it is.

This is a pretty similar concept when it comes to cracking, which is exactly what happened here. You gained access to a password/code to a network through non-ethical means. It's like accidentally finding out your mate's PIN number for their bank card. It isn't illegal for you to know it, but if you access their bank account with it without their permission, that is.

You used a legal and legitimate piece of software on your computer to gain access to a password/code to a secure network. In and of itself, that is not illegal. ethically questionable, yes, but still not illegal. It becomes illegal when you use that password/code for your own ends (ie: connecting your Ipod). It's like accessing your mate's bank account. Even if you don't do anything with it, it still isn't yours, and you shouldn't touch it.

Schools and businesses see this as a gateway to bigger offenses, and therefore deal with it immediately to keep it from escalating. You may not be the type, but someone else could get that original password/code, then think one day, "Hrmm... I can access the network, wonder if I can loo at my grades?" The maybe it becomes fixing a grade or an absence, or even obtaining sensitive information that may be stored in the system.

This is why they have to treat every single infraction like it is a major one, because they aren't psychic and don't know who will or won't take it further.

As was previously mentioned, your best course at this moment is to own up to what you did, admit it was a very bad decision, and ask for guidance to keep from making this kind of bad decision in the future.

Hope it all works out, and sorry all for rambling.... I wasn't always a boy scout, but I've learned a lot from what I've done over the years, and would hate to see people make some of the mistake I have, even if I didn't get caught.


~C

 

Naughty Naughty Naughty ! People in glass Houses ! :-D

 

I'm sorry but the pot argument is way different, by smoking pot you're not taking someone else's property, you're not harming someone else and for the most part you are not deceiving people to do it.

This thread isn't condemning the poor lad to a eternity of theft and jail cells, but he asked if it's illegal.
Point in case if the school wishes to press charges they could.
He used logging software maliciously to gain access to something he was not allowed.
I'm pretty sure that falls under "Hacking" in most places, petty or not, whether you agree or not, it's fact.

He's also admitted it on a public forum with no edit rights lol

 

To answer the question:

it would be no. If the admins wanted you to have access to it, there would be no password or you would have been given the password. To obtain the password the way you did is wrong.

I think "Cracking" is the proper term:
http://www.geek.com/forums/topic/hacking-and-cracking

and:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_hacking_and_cracking

 

Also known as script kiddies which is a more appropriate description in this instance :-D

 

All this discussion and not a single reply from the OP? :confused

 

Probably gone on the run :-D

 

Ah, once again I've been out intelligentized :-D

That makes much more sense.

 

Hes a future IT guy though. I remember being kicked out of my highschool computer lab a couple times too. Its a matter of curiosity i think. Dont be so quick to jump at his throat. Probably just a guy that wants to learn something.

 

Been following this thread. Great points made. Never know how far the kid would take it in the future. Could be a kiddish breach, for cheap thrills, but then again!? Hope they learn the hard lesson the easy way - no records. Slap on the wrist.

Cheers..

 

I know this thread hasn't had any activity in it since March 12, but since my question relates to this assertion (which went unchallenged in the three pages prior), I figure I should be good asking it here, as opposed to starting a new thread.

Assuming the above is true (someone please correct me if this is wrong)...

My wife and I are about to go on vacation for two weeks, leaving my brother-in-law to house-sit.

She thinks it would be rude to leave him without computer/Internet access, and I agree with her to a point but ultimately think it would be a mistake.

Without going into too much detail, he used to be kind of shady, but is supposed to be walking the straight-and-narrow now.

He's in his mid-30s, lives at home, and doesn't have a job (this house-sitting job will actually be his first job in ~ a year).

So the question is: Can I install monitoring software (or a hardware device) on my own computer, if the 'subject' is not my own kids?

Unlike the OP, I'm not trying to access resources not under my control; I just don't 100% trust the guy. This would either be verification or vindication.


(related note: has anyone here ever heard of Desktop Shark and, if so, what are your thoughts?)

 

I think in this case, it's a bad idea. If you don't trust him, take the computer with you, or the modem. Don't set him up. Explaining that you think you'll need the computer, or it would be nice to have on vacation, is (to me at least) a lot easier conversation than We didn't trust you, so we did this, and look what you did.

I've often heard, and said that if you go snooping for something you're not supposed to, you can't be upset with what you find.

Have fun on vacation. Also, I have to imagine that will be easier, without having to think "I wonder if we've caught him yet" the whole time you're gone.

 

Very well put and I totally agree,it does seem like a lose lose gamble,there's only a couple of ways this can end and most of them end up with you and your wife falling out with your brother in law,the only good 'and I say good relatively speaking' way it can end is if you snoop on your brother in law find out he's done nothing leaving you with the guilt of distrusting him in the first place and 'even then' if he ever found out his sister and her husband snooped on him,well same result you fall out with him and maybe push him back to his old ways because he may as well if no one is ever gonna trust him again.

Self fulfilling prophecy.

 

Ive known/seen people that have been nasty/dirty/not the best to be around type of people. And sometimes they come back many times saying they've changed, and you go to help them with getting a job or something and next thing you hear is them being arrested again.

 

:-D I think I'd say I'm trusting you with my house and all my possessions but if you do ANYTHING illegal on my PC FFS use a proxy.:-D

 

Many times when I held a party back in the day I had few people that I guessed wanted to look at some porn. Next thing I know is porn ads started popping up. And notice some sites just wasnt porn. It was some weird stuff(I wont say).

 

First thing I do when I get to a party full of REAL girls,find the nearest PC and try to find some porn:-D