Legal action against M.S

Has any imdividual or small enterprise ever taken legal action against Microsoft and won, concerning the route cause of all software and hardware conflicts, Windows? I won't go into more specifics at this stage, but that's basically the question.

 

Not sure where you're wanting to go with this really a.jenery...

Windows is an Operating System. It sits directly above the hardware (from a quasi-logical viewpoint) and provides a platform for which software to run on... Software which uses hardware (as all software does to one extent or anothre) uses defined interfaces via Windows.

But its more complicated than that... The Windows development team write the OS - they do not write the device drivers for every single piece of hardware out there... Ok there are default drivers which get used sometimes, but most people probably want to be using a vendors device driver over a default.

Why? Well the vendor of a peripheral knows exactly how that peripheral should work and can write a driver to tell Windows what to do with it a lot better than Microsoft can assume how the default behaviour of a device will work based on its classification.

If there is a problem with how a piece of hardware and software interoperates then the fix is nearly always in a driver. And thats something which Microsoft isn't really involved with.

Also, a pre-requisite action to installing windows is accepting the EULA... Whilst I haven't read this (thrilling and no doubt awe-inspiring) document in its entirety Im fairly sure Microsoft will at some point excuse themselves from any assurance that they do not guaruntee for every piece of hardware to work on their OS. But thats just a guess... Microsoft are a huge business organisation and have teams of legal people making sure that they're not exposed at too many levels from litigation.

So to summarise, I'm fairly certain that no-one has taken Microsoft to court over how well software interoperates with hardware. But thats just my guess...

 

I'll bet he's referring to Windows Media 5.0

Worst peice of crap EVER!!! Worse than Windows ME!

It has rendered my Axim almost useless. It is so full of bugs! Activesync is all screwed up, battery drains like crazy due to some bug with the processor speed throttling, Bluetooth is messed up, it constantly chimes while using Media Player, no longer recognizes most SD or CF cards, etc, etc, the list goes on.

There are some folks on aximsite talking about a class action law suite, but they really won't get anywhere. The bottom line though, is this is like beta software. I don't know how much testing was actually done, but it should have never been released yet.

Dell has actually released a program to downgrade from 5.0 to 2003, and most users are actually downgrading. I know I will this weekend.

I didn't actually pay for my copy, since I bought my Axim while Dell was offerring a free Mobile 5.0 CD when it was released, so I guess I can't get too angry.



-Steve

 

My mistake, I meant to say Windows Mobile 5.0, not Media.



-Steve

 

If you are referring to their desktop OS, no. That would be laughed out of court so fast...

Windows works fine with MS hardware and software. It messes up with 3rd party stuff, which does not become the problem of MS.

Of course, this was all said above

 

Many thanks to all, and appologies for not replying until now...

I'm not surprised at what everyone is basically saying - after all, who am I? I know MS cover themselves with their EULA's, but if everyone takes this literally, well that's probably why they're so untouchable.
Other high-tech co's have had legal action taken against them for causing end users far less problems than what MS via Windows does - one 'big company' has been all over the news recently re' screens that scratch easilly; so I thought of this as a president. Ok, this is slightly different as it's a purely deffective product issue, but the principles are the same.
What ever - right or wrong, I couldn't afford it anyway...

 

Heres my thought, no one forces you to use windows, you don't like it change to linux or even god forbid, mac os, (seriously os x is the pimp), stop complaining.

 

Windows works great, in a windows networking environment. If you have a decent firewall, then there should never be any worries.

Besides, if you think that windows is the only OS that has security risks, then look at the other OSs that have security updates.

I remember, a few years ago (2000) that our UNIX (not linux) servers had more security updates then any of our NT (4) based systems. It seemed like it was an every other day type of patch session with them.

But, I digress, so to speak.......If your 3rd party software developer can't write any decent code, then perhaps it is time to change.......

 

I'm not sure that the analogy with car maintenance holds. With cars maintenance attends to "wear and tear", whereas the software updates are usually to fix "bugs" - software does not "wear down" per se. However, I understand the link that if the "product" is not serviced by a reputable qualified "dealer" then your warranty is no longer valid.

Now, it could be construed that an update is an admission that the product is faulty. However, there is no specification that determines what should or should not be in the product (as far as I know), i.e., the faults are intended and are there by design and not due to oversight. Then again, accepting the EULA implies your acceptance of the product as is, warts and all. An example taken from the MG front page: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5944208.html?tag=nl.e589 - whether this works in the MS case is an open question.

 

Now, to continue this thought, my old Pontiac GrandPrix had a bug in it, which required a "patch". Well, there was some faulty part, that had to get replaced, in ALL the GrandPrix's of my make and model.

Also, cars and computers are quite alike, within one aspect. Upgrades. I want to decrease the heat that my cpu is at, same with the car. I add headers (cpu), so I need to add a better cooling system in the car.

I'm just happy to say that all the mods that I have done to my car, I did myself, the same thing with mods in my computer.

 

This is hard to say, without making folks mad……and yes I do all my hardware changes and mods to, but I don’t have a clue as to making the software code….so have to say, I did it with some help……..wobbles

 

Software code would be programming.

Are you asking how does one program?

 

has anyone mentioned that bill gates might be able to afford better lawyers than anyone on this message board?

 

This mirrors most of how I feel about it.

quote:

...the faults are intended and are there by design and not due to oversight.'

Unquote.

But for now, I'll take one of the other hints. I'll stop complaining...

 

Guess for me to relate, I'd have to be given some actual examples of intentional problems. Got any?

 

Doesn't matter if someone has a strong enough reason. So far, I've heard zero. Bad publicity costs MS more than any lawsuit does. They'll settle if it is making them look bad enough.

Of course, if the lawsuit is frivolous enough...thats a little different.

I can't think of a single thing that MS can be rightfully sued for, that other software companies couldn't also be sued for.


If people are sitting around waiting for bug free software...well thats just naive.

Use your programs, backup your data, get the job done, and call it a day.

Problem solved. The problem comes in when A: People don't update their software, and practice safe computing, or B: People don't back their crap up, and practice common sense computing.

 

I've used Windows XP a ton, arguably to its full extent. I've fixed virtually every part of the OS, and it holds no secrets for me. I consider myself knowledgeable with the OS. I've since converted to Mac OS X, and now use it exclusively. I still don't know all of its ins and outs, and I am a novice at repairing it. However, I use it enough, to feel I have a decent voice for it.

Comparing the two:

XP is not more stable than OS X.

Conversly,

OS X is not more stable than XP.

In the end, people can bitch till their blue in the face about Microsoft, but if you keep using their products, its a hypocritical statement. Stop using MS products. Don't give them your money. The only lawsuits that ever really succeed these days by private individuals are class action lawsuits. The claimants usually see a coupon, or some 15 dollar rebate in the end The only winners are the lawyers.

 

Perhaps being an older computer user, I don't see things quite the same. I remember running DOS programs 1 at a time. Occasionally 2 at a time if I had a TSR (remember those ? TSR = "terminate and stay resident" for those who don't). Windows that allowed multiple programs to run was a vast improvement to me. Windows XP is much better than Windows ME or 95. I rarely have problems, consistently run 5 to 7 programs at a time, and recall the old days of computers as the "bad old days". But then maybe I am just easily impressed.

 

'...the faults are intended and are there by design and not due to oversight.'

This was quoting from post No.11, which is probably nearer the truth.

As to actual examples - well, I'm sorry, but we have them all the time. Just go to any software forum type site and read some of the posts submitted. Not everyone can be wrong...

 

I'm sorry, I understand you are disgruntled, but your response is 100% a cop out. I am of the opinion that if you are gonna step up to the bat, you better be ready to swing. I spent my time posting, you can spend your time explaining? This is a two way conversation

 

Being that I have more than served my time in the Software forum fixing things, I can tell you that 99.999999% of them were user fault, the fault of a third party product, or an unfortunate mishap that required repair. I consider myself semi-retired atm. Are those lawsuit worthy? Guess it depends on how honorable the person is.

Almost all fo them are fixable. Maybe not by us, but we arent the only people in the world either. Kinda like bringing in your car to a repair shop.

Now, while I mention user fault, I do not mean that in a bad way. If you use a computer, you are gonna mess something up. It doesn't make anyone smarter, or dumber, its just a part of life. Anyone who says they use a computer perfectly and have never done an oops! is a liar

Whats important is not how little software fails, its how gracefully it recovers from the failure. Perfect software does not exist.

 

True, not everyone can be wrong...but most can.

How often do you hear of someone crying wolf about a sproblem with software that doesn't effect others, or maybe a small percentage?


Every day. Every.

Where are you collecting your information?

--The Internet it sounds like.

Where do people go to complain about their problems?

--The Internet.

How many people on the Internet actually visit software forums?

--I'd be shocked if it was more than a few percent.

How many success stories do you hear?

--Few, people like bad news. Its entertaining to read.

A few percent of users does not speak for the entire population using said software.

People don't go to tech forums to tell others how great their software is working,. They go there for help. So is it any surprise that if you go to Software forums, you find problems?

I'm sorry, its not a valid example.

 

and I can proudly say that every problem I've ever had on a PC is because I'm an idiot!

Seriously, since I didn't write Windows XP there are a million and one ways that I could misuse it and I probably do some of them every day. I take full responsibility though and since I'm not as stupid as some I come here to learn form people who know what they are doing.

Most users just complain and then keep doing it wrong.

I'm not saying Microsoft are perfect (far from it I'm sure) But I agree with Adrynalyne, most users are their own worst enemy. Be interested if anyone can point out real (and major) flaws in XP (that effect a large number of users) that haven't been tackled.

 

I remember those days!

Trying to tweak the 640k of ram to get everything to function properly. Also, I remember playing Castle Wolfenstein on a bootable floppy.

 

Do you remember .Z80 assembly language? I had to do my A level project in that! It was a total nightmare

*looks @ mcadam* Stop laughing!