Microsoft's WGA Sued As 'Spyware'

Interesting article ...
I wonder if Microsoft also has contracts with Homeland Security. lol

http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190000002

abri

 

Well most people dont bother to read the EULA on this and as well on tons of other programs for I as well dont read them most of the time. I dont mind, hoever, that WGA is sending messages from my pc as I know its not for a harmful purpose.

 

Dito..except that I DO read the entire EULA for any and all software I want to install. Most are very boring, but there have been times when I caught 'unwanted' factors and did not install the software.
I may get some heat from this, but...I think Microsoft is doing a good job of improving customer service and handling problems.

 

If you don't agree to the EULA, you may as well forfeit the computer world. However, all sets of laws governing human behavior require a constitution, and there is not a constitution which is governing big businesses. There are not international "business cops" who run around looking into big businesses. Each incidence of watching businesses has to be the result of legal proceedings, tax audits, subpoenas, etc.. So when is there going to be a computer consitution with a bill of rights for computer users? The decision of multi-billionaires to restrict the use of, let us say - music - in a way that only the rich are allowed to listen to music legally, is ... a process of criminalizing anyone who can't afford it, because who's going to quit listening to music? <calmly puts up umbrella>

abri

 

To quote from the MG front page.
Download, install and run:-

 

I think the point is that the software is installed before you agree to the EULA - which is a bit of a slipup for MS. I'm glad that I a) don't have automatic updates turned on b) actually read the descriptions of everything before I install updates

 

oh, that's a great site! thanks!
There have been a lot of protests against the EULA in Germany, because it requires agreement with laws which go against the German privacy laws.

 

Windows Genuine Advantage
( I think it's a euphemism )
lol
abri

 

well probably bill gates doesn't have enough money. That would explain it.
abri

 

Genuine Adantage to a businessman generally refers to no competition.
abri

 

But i think i saw another like this or lets says i post "almost" same like this

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=95884

infoseeker

 

I did this and it says I don't have the tool active in my computer. However, I was browsing through my Windows Explorer and ran across a folder called "Office Genuine Advantage" with a data.dat file in it of 3 kb. Is this a program which is similar? Can I delete it directly from Windows Explorer? I'm not sure what a .dat file does or what happens if I delete it.

abri

 

Can't help you directly with an answer, as to why you didn't find it.

*.dat files are short for data and are usually a "database" of info collected by a specific program, like WGA in this instance.

I suggest that you make a note of the folder where the dat file appears.
Then copy the file to a CD, USB drive or floppy, and delete it.
You can always copy it back to the folder it came from, as a last resort. Bazza

===

 

Well, me and my computer are going to have it out soon. When I went back to the local settings folder where I found the OGA (Office Genuine Advantage) folder under All Users/Local Settings, the entire local settings folder wasn't visible anymore. I'm going to bed. I notice XP often fixes itself after I sleep.
abri

 

Sorry, I have to repost this, because it took me more than 10 minutes to edit it.

Well, me and my computer are going to have it out soon. When I went back to the local settings folder where I found the OGA (Office Genuine Advantage) folder under All Users/Local Settings, the entire local settings folder wasn't visible anymore. I looked at the right side of Windows Explorer and found it but the folder was a lighter color than the visible ones. I asked my son why and he said it indicated a link. I looked at properties and followed the link to where it was supposed to be (a very unused part of the computer) and it wasn't there even in its light-colored invisible form. When I went back to where I first found the local settings under C:/Doc&Settings/all users, it was gone altogether. On my computer, everything is visible. Hidden files, extensions, etc. My computer has had some funny moments lately, but this is worrying me. Why would Office Genuine Advantage be a disappearing and reappearing folder? <mutters things and goes to bed>
abri

 

i think the thread is getting out "OFF" topic

LOL

infoseeker

 

TO me the way the EULA reads is wrong, it is this simple if I install a M$ product and I activate it then there is no need ever for M$ to steady be banging the computer looking for something they already blessed. And anyone that thinks that all they are getting is just their product is fooling themselves, easy enough to prove why is M$ at odds with so many companies for their own PDF reader, etc, easy because they are looking into your computer and seeing that you have software installed, and they are doing the math that 90% of the people that use Windows are also using Adobe reader, and so on, now this all goes back to the "old days" and I am sorry once you activate Windows any further intrusion into your system without you knowing about it is hacking!! It's not spyware, it is hacking, there are many stories on the web where people have tried to either activate Windows, or update Windows and ended up losing the copy of Windows that they have, now surely anyone that knowingly installed an illegal copy of Windows would not be stupid enough to a) Activate it, b) Update it through M$! I know from first hand experience since I buy and sell used computers that you get the deal where you can, and you don't always get the right restore disk, or any disk at all, and believe it or not some of these PC's still run Windows 95! Another big loophole in there little system seems to be the EULA itself, according to the last one I looked at for Vista I am allowed to install this on 10 computers, now I am not stupid enough to believe that I can install it on 10 computers and activate and update them all with out attention from M$ but thats what their EULA states, further I can use the same Product key on all 10. No this is clearly away for M$ to hack your computer while standing behind the EULA that is now bigger then the US Constitution!

 

True the Vista EULA allows me 10, all other EULA allow me 5. Yes I agree with most of what you say, but still somewhere I have a vision in my head of a family at a flea market or yard sale Jr is wanting to buy his first PC and he can get a great deal on it for $25 even though its old it is still useable especially for a first computer! So while he is screaming "Dad, Dad look I want this!" Dad is looking at the cover of an old Forbes magizine Where the headline reads that Bill Gates is the richest person in the world! NOw answer me this, which one of them is concerned with the EULA? Further I like many others believe that M$ and others intentionally leak beta copies, on Cnet.com there are people that write posts that they have been using Longhorn/Vista for years, and these people have the stones to print this online! Now think about it beta testing is a very important part, and abuser's that "steal" and install copies of any product I feel are considered a neccesary evil, anyhow the boy and his $25 yard sale computer tries to do right and activate, or register and loses his OS, now he has to do whats right make Dad go purchase the full blown version of the OS so now he has a legitimate copy and has increased the value of the PC by none and invested 8 times the value of the computer all the while the magizine cover keeps flashing through his mind!
Sorry the fact that Microsoft wants more access to my computer than my wife does is not right, and While I am one of the official testers for Vista, I still do not allow M$ access to my computer!
Your statement that any software that allows updates is hacking is wrong easily because they update their software, it is a simple known proven fact that M$ looks at your entire system, if nothing else you know they look at your registry where all the product keys are, the activation status, etc. So instead of this let pose the question to you..What would Windows be like as an OS if they did not have to spend so much time and money on security, and piracy. What if they could just come put with a version of Windows that really advanced the idea of an operating system, and not rehashes bloated to include 3gb of security, WGA, WPA, etc. No I say that just like my cell pphone I see no need to activate it everyday, have it spied upon everyday, I bought my copy of Windows, actually I bhought the Key it is the same Windows you got, so this key I paid so much for should entitle me to....?

 

My own feeling about it (WGA and OGA) is that it's wrong. Attaching IE to Windows was wrong. Forcing a legal fight with Sun was wrong.

What my logic tells me is that I would not agree to the police coming into my home to look around for something illegal. It has nothing to do with whether there is something illegal in my home or not. It has to do with the establishment of a police-state mentality.

abri

 

Just had an interesting experience.

After reading DAKz' comment on 90% of MS users are also using Adobe Reader, I remembered that I used to have an alternate PDF reader.

I searched google and came up with Foxit Reader, that I used to use.
Deleted google link.
It is also available on MG. Should have looked here first.
http://majorgeeks.com/Foxit_Reader_d4763.html

 

One tiime years ago I registered a version of Windows there was no activation, and while I was there I did an update thought all had gone well till I got a group of incoming through random ports, the software I was using at the time gave me the IP address to which I went to, it was a golf pro shop that was closed, sadly they made the mistake of installing a new version of Windows also. I got a hold of a copy of visual route tracer and started in I also e-mailed the golf shop in St. Louis and asked them why this was happening, they were really lost. The next night it started happening again and Visual Route tracer traced it back to..... Awww you knew it all along, Right back to Washington State and Microsoft. So anybody that thinks that M$ is playing fair keep this story in mind and this was almost 10 years ago, I am sure their methods are better now. So here's what we have to figure out, why do we all get upset when the cell phone companies want to provide our call info to the Government but hacking our computers by a corporation is OK?? I am not condoning priacy at all but there has to be better ways of going about to insure our privacy and our protection against these giant corporations! What Bigbazza tells above is a great example of how we are willing to give up our privacy to read a text document! And when installing software myself I disconnect from the internet till I am satisfied what it is the softwares wants access for. Now here's a good one for all, why does Windows Explorer need internet access, anyone with zone alarm can look and see that M$ wants to see your computer by giving Windows Explorer internet access and it wants server rights also!

 

Proof, as I stated earlier why does M$ want Windows explorer to have full internet access?? Easy enough and it has nothing to do with your product key or any thing else except what software you have installed on your system. Now I am new to this only being at it for 30 years but isn't that the same as "My Computer" so tell me how I can look up my CD Key or activation status, or updates needed from my computer.
As I beta tester I decide when M$ gets into the computer, not allowing them to run in when they want, but when I want, and I am very active in the feed back program, I don't see how that applies at all. Now understand that I can see the oppinions of everyone, but after so many years at it I have seen Microsoft go from MS-DOS I remember well Windows 2.0 on 5 1/2 floppies, to now gaint programs on DVD. So while I am not knocking their product, or their methods to protect their product, I can knock their methods. As far as my cell phone goes, I have the ability to turn the locator part of it of, it is a setting under a menu item, they can know who I call, and the number I am calling from, but not a clue as to where I am, I also don't allow the car dealer to run over here every couple of minutes to make sure I am not voiding the extended warranty on my car, I do not allow the cable company to run in every couple of minutes to see what I am watching, and I do not allow M$ to bang the back of my computer at will to check that the version of windows I activated, registered, and give feedback on is still there. I respect all the different points of view on this matter, but I have seen it get worst with every version that has come out, and yes the price has been set for Vista Ultimate @ $600 that should prop up the sagging computer market! I don't disagree that there is a lot of software being stolen out there, but I still will never understand why right now I have to have (let me count....) 20 M$ programs trying to access the internet including notepad! Please this is out of hand. this copy is paid for, activated, and registered, but 20 windows programs accessing the internet, explain to me why notepad needs access to the internet, can M$ retrive the cd key and info from notepad? Or are they just trying to find a port they can get into. Doubt what I say, install Zone alarm and look for yourself, one more thing to consider, if I am so wrong then why does Major Geeks offer all the updates for AV and spyware so you can manually update your software without exposing it to the internet? Thanks to all of you this is really great and I love the exchange of ideas!

 

The Indians stole horses, didn't they, because they were a good idea and they weren't allowed access to them any other way. It was a control thing as I recall, and the control came in the form of something like ... you can't buy the horses because you don't have any money. I believe that was the polite explanation. The impolite explanation was savages can't be trusted with horses. They might get out of control.

I see two mentalities at work here in the computer development industry:

1) If you're rich, you can have something which works. If you are poor, you can attempt to keep your head above water.

and the second one:

2) The criminalizing of anyone who owns a computer based on the underlying notion that ALL people must be watched for illegal activities. This is like going back to Soviet Union and East Block ways of doing things. It's is the systematic criminalizing of normal people.

Piracy is not an issue of money for the music industry and the software industry. It's a matter of "more" money. How much was a song worth in the middle ages?
abri

 

I thought it was a German attribute to accept things as being unchangeable. However, I accept your disagreement. I just don't like hit-and-run end statements. It's a bit like having the door slammed in your face or the "phone" (yes, there it is again), hung up on you.
abri

 

Sorry about all that, I am maybe overly sensitive about the privacy thing right now as I was one that got a letter from VA explianing that my personal information was on that laptop/disk. And while the news reports that they got it back and they have determined that there was no access I keep getting strange e-mails all the sudden wanting to sell me a home using my VA benefits. There are good points and bad to be made from what M$ considers protecting it's reasources, and I feel that we are entitled to the same, we have to take steps to entitle our reasorces, after all when we are dead and gone all thats left is our name. M$ created this monster, and there is an OS out there that has found a way around it, they want you to "pirate" their OS, the more the merrier!of course I am refering to Linux. So I agree time to let this one rest, there is no real right and wrong here, and some of us are convinced that M$ leaks copies just to get beta tested for free, after all if they didn't then the whole activation cd key thing would not change so much from version to version, I really feel that they want to see if it can be hacked! I think Longhorn/Vista proves it by being a year late in release, and so many different beta versions. I don't remember anything being so widespread as Longhorn/Vista and never seen so many versions around...But then again I also feel that Vista Ultimate is M$'s way of proping up a sagging computer market, aint no way your gonna get a $499 Dell with a $600 version of Vista on it, watch computer prices go sky high with the release!

 

My $.02 worth:
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

Take it or leave it. Face reality, accept or don't accept and move on. The chances of changing it are real slim!

 

Unplug??? Hmmmm I was using the internet long before "Al Gore" invented it, I used BBS's and have run BBS's, I have seen AOL sued into providing all it's members 3 free months of service, and now it appears from that article that Halo posted above that there are lawyers looking very hard at the whole thing from the EULA to the WGA, More and more European nations are turning against it. IBM thought they were invinceable to once upon a time. The statement that Halo makes scares me to death, basicly theres nothing I can do about it so I will give in. Change starts with each of us, not all of us at once. Wrong is wrong and the more I read the article that Halo refered to then the more I see M$ trying to do wrong, the one that sticks in my mind still is besides the ones that is pointed out in the article I do not understand why Windows Explorer and notepad need internet access, there is no privacy involved there at all, if I write down a friends Name address, etc, and same it anywhere on the computer then M$ has access to it through Windows Explorer. Understand that if they want to look at my copy of Windows then fine no problem, but to look at all the things they want to through WGA is very wrong and I bet in 1-2 years time they will be told that it is wrong! Toni_1947 if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear? Are you saying that every bit of information on your computer is public record? The music you listen to? The e-mails you write and recieve, the posts on here? Think about it, does M$ have the right to your .PWL files? It's their software right they have access through Windows explorer can they get your passwords, sure they can. My copy is validated, activated, registered, blessed, modified, updated, Blessed again, but I still don't think they have any business trying to figure out the BIOS revision on my PC, the harddrive serail number, or any of the other things in the article Halo refers to and that Zone Alarm tells me they want!

 

YES!​

My ISP has PWL info, as do lots of web sites I visit. Big Deal.

 

Where do I get my information on pricing, from http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=33603
or
http://digg.com/software/Ultimate_Vista_and_Office_2007..._At_An_Ultimate_Price

Now the interesting part is this msblog that got shut down, the reason is right at the top of the page,
http://www.msblog.org/?p=647
The retail price of Windows 2003 Server is $520 to $3840 (http://www.edirectsoftware.com/server.php) I can't see M$ going backwards on pricing,
There are many others but it's a safe bet that it wont be cheaper then XP Pro!

 

Gee I don't think that Little Billy Gates needs to see the love note I wrote my fiancee the other day.

 

Get Real!
I doubt he's interested in your love life!

 

Pretty cool you copy and paste what you want to support your side. I put the link there because the entire article was to big to paste in here and it refers to the price of Vista. Do you have an official source (ie M$) saying it will be less or different then what is listed on these links? And I notice you had no coment at all from the link I posted thats as near offical as can be found at this point and that is the MSBlog. I get a kick out of the official unofficial quotes that you come up with, Do you have an inside track to all this that you can say without doubt that all the internet is wrong? Do you believe that M$ will charge less for Vista then they do XP any flavor? Seems you enjoy going against anything I post here. Kinda makes me wonder if my ex-wife finally got a computer. Or are we so narrow minded that we can not learn or expand to accept anything we don't instantly agree with, This is supposed to be a forum for open information and exchange of ideas, not a stage for you to try to force your will and views on the rest, I support my findings with web sites, do I say they are the holy grail, no not at all just another view that maybe not everyone is aware of. This is not a court of law, it is a public sharing of ideas, thats all, if next winter rolls around and Vista Rolls out at a reasonable price then great, I am enough of a man to say Wow what I surprise I guess I was wrong, but you know what, thats OK I wasn't nailed to a cross and I get to be wrong, but at least I support what I say with more then argumentive spoutings with no support at all. Now if I am wrong and this is your personal blog where you can preach the gospel according to Halo then I am truely sorry, however if it is an open forum for the exchange of ideas and information, then my friend, you are truely sorry.

 

This is exactly what the SS said, when they came to search people's houses. That is why the privacy laws in Germany are so much stricter than in most other countries, because they learned the hard way what happens when you say, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
abri

 

@ DAKz....maybe you are not aware of certain policies here at MG's but one thing we don't tolerate is personal attacks and name calling. To even insinuate or dance around insults against another member here irregardless of how strongly you feel about any topic is just plain wrong...save it for the playground.

Any further posts in this thread that so much as border on attacking another member will be deleted and the thread will be closed.

 

Reminds me when manufacturers put serial numbers on processors that could be read through the web, so an individual computer could be identified. They were honestly suprised that people cared, and had to retrofit a kill for the "feature" in a hurry.

Basic validation is no big thing, but day after day? I tend to think of MS as unreasonably preditory anyhow, given some of their history, so I'm not inclined to give them the benifit of the doubt.

Same arguement that was given Sony after the root kit fiasco, it's their intellectual property, but it's my computer and data line. Like as not, we really do have to get along.

I'm just glad there are people willing to write code to counter it. Kinda makes up for the other stuff (like viruses, etc.).

 

Agreed Nick. Until MS makes an official announcement anything else is purely speculation, rumor and/or gossip meant to evolve into exactly what has been seen in this thread and other places on the web. You have certain people or groups of people insisting the information is accurate or at the very least, close to accurate and so we have yet another round of MS bashing.

Bottom line, believe what you will but facts are facts and until Microsoft, who we all know are the ones not only developing the software but who will be releasing it are the ones who will set the price..until then, anything else about prices is simply coffee shop gossip.

As for the daily validation, it's no big deal to me however I did block it (did not click remember setting) after the first time with ZA and then disabled the service from running at startup just b/c I like as little as possible running. I have not been prompted by ZA since then that it has tried to access the net. I did not use any special tool/code to disable it.

 

Someone please remind me how pricing of Vista got connected to a question about WGA? I'm not following all of this too well and feeling left out of my own thread. <pout>

I do remember an instance in one thread of democrats being referred to as crybabies. Name-calling is usually a sign of general weakness in the argument, therefore can be seen by the oponent in a positive light. lol <grins>
abri

 

You validate your software when you enter the activation key during installation, so what Microsoft is asking for is not validation, but re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-<etc.>-re-validation. It comes back to the issue of being presumed guilty, which is not part of American law.
abri

 

Hi AbbySue,
This is a good idea as a workaround. I'm assuming this is not what Microsoft had in mind. My own thoughts in this thread and in the legal or illegal thread have been drifting into the area, how long must a systemic problem require workarounds? If I understand Bill Gate's intentions, much of his money will be invested in giving every child in the world access to a computer. It would be safe to guess these will be Microsoft computers? In any country, how many operating systems does a family need to purchase? While I think the EULA was quoted somewhere in this forum as saying that you agree not to change the OS, this entire website is dedicated to doing exactly this. From my own point of view, WGA is attempting to make a problem a public problem, which is in fact a problem at the very basic root of Microsoft's business philosophy. If they consider that their business philosophy itself is part of the problem, then it will not be necessary to set up an organihzed "police-state" to govern piracy.
abri