my hubby sez

---that its not possible to use stockings to replace a fan belt in an emergency.
me - "maybe they have to be proper silk stockings?"
him "nope, not possible"
"maybe it only worked on the really old engines?"
"nope, not even on a 2 stroke lawnmower!"
" maybe fishnets, coz the're sturdier?"
"NO. no way, no how, cannot possibly be done."

so who thinks you can, and who thinks you cant???

 

Actually, yes. Not very well, and not for long, but it can be enough to limp to the next town or repair place.

http://www.hints-n-tips.com/vehicle.htm

It won't charge the battery (will slip) but will keep the water pump spinning enough to not overheat the engine.

 

I agree with GT on this, and have seen it used once or twice!

 

Gotta go with GT on this one!!!!

Roger

 

I'm gonna go hit and miss as you may limp along for a while,what about pulling the HT leads off a couple of cylinders as many as the engine will still run,the non firing cylinders would pump cold air through the engine and maybe cool the engine off a little,most importantly theres less heat for the radiator to cope with,you'd pop along until you reached the next town and every so often the fuel in the exaust would explode

 

Yes you can, I did it years ago, and no they weren't my stockings.

They don't last long, but good for an emergency.


Always keep a pair in your glovebox.

 

In the ute or the charger

 

I used to love Chrysler Valiant Chargers (still remember the commercial), great motors.

 

I had a pair in my glovebox. I wish I knew about this fan belt replacement idea the day my wife found them.

 

http://www.valiant.org/charger.html

Sweet Car,anyways back to stockings

 

I'd love to know how this topic came about LaurieB?

 

we was watching a film, it was a crappy rolf somehtine with an L russan person thingy, "the russan specialist" i think, but dont waste your life minutes watching it. .any ways, dolf or whatever his name is, did it to a truck, of some discript.

 

he stands firm, (well he wavered slightly...i heard it in his voice lol) he sez it would shred a pair of tights in two or three revolutions.

 

No it wouldn't, I've personally done it, and it's an old emergency trick.

Get him to try to rip a pair of pantyhose and see how far he gets. It's as strong as rope.

I'm an expert at ripping womens clothes and even I can't do it.

 

My God, a choice between your's, or your girlfriends!

 

No, unburned fuel will "wash" the cylinder walls and end up in the oil and the exhaust. It will not explode in the exhaust but will overwork the catalytic converter and can damage it. I"m gonna go with the lingerie not working for very long at all.

 

I doubt it, and I have never seen a belt driven 2 stroke engine, maybe in a lawn tractor or something.

 

You apparently didn't read the above posts.

 

LMAO.

Steve

 

It can be done, and I too have done such an emergency measure long ago. As said, it doesn't last very long. And foget about waring them afterwards, LoL! You just twist them up, like a rope, and tie it as tight as you can.

Also done it with rope but the knot tends to jam things up.

There's quiet a few references to this on the net, like this one.

http://www.texasghosttowns.com/F_onthetrail.htm

and here:-

http://www.cartest.ca/winter_driving.htm

Stockings/pantyhose are a handy-dandy stand by for a lot of running repairs, actually.

 

How will it end up in the oil?

The valves and piston rings prevent this (if they aren't worn).


The unburnt fuel/air mixture would simply pass through the exhaust valve and out the exhaust.

 

The rings seal because of a film of oil on the cylinder walls. The piston compresses the fuel and if it doesn't ignite it condenses on the walls and runs down onto the rings, washing the oil film away. It actually gets by the rings quite easily.

 

It is only an emergency measure we're only talking driving for 30 mins or so,the fuel in the oil will be negligable as fresh oil is pumped around the piston oil ring, this is what creates a gas tight'and liquid tight'seal not the piston rings, the rings are only a guide to stop piston wearing away,the contact area between the oil and fuel isnt large enough for any meaningfull amount to dissolve the oil and pass into the oil system

The the extra fuel would have no effect whatsoever on the catalytic converter,the catalytic converter cant be 'overworked',it will be the exact opposite underworked as it will no longer be doing its job due to not reaching full operating temperature and having less exaust gasses to convert,petroleum also cant dissolve metal which is the only way the catalyst could be damaged

Whether the the fuel mixture in the exaust would explode 'well make a chuff sound'I suppose depends opon how many cylinders you have disabled and how well the the firing cylinders are running,in most cases the pressure of the exaust gasses would blow the unburned mixture straight out,sometimes the flame from one cylinder will ignite the mixture in the exaust

Mmmm heated dibate,sweet

speaking of engines and exausts

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1147074816484801539

 

If you live in a cold climate you'll know that you can flood any engine so that the plugs get wet and won't spark, which is the same as disconnecting the plug wires. If you crank the engine for thirty minutes (often still won't start), pull out the oil dipstick and smell it. I had a van at work that had been cranked like this. There was so much fuel in the crankcase, the pistons were hitting the oil/fuel mix on the downstroke and slowing the cranking speed, compounding the problem. Disconnecting plug wires can damage ignition moules or coil packs if the wires are not grounded. To disable cylinders on fuel injected engines disconnect the injectors.
Read these.
"Misfires are bad news because unburned fuel passes right through the engine and into the exhaust. This increases emissions and also causes the catalytic converter to run hotter than normal. A really bad misfire may even damage the converter."
http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tt/tt40452.htm

A severe form of engine flooding is where excessive liquid fuel enters the combustion chamber. This reduces the dead volume of the combustion chamber and thus places a heavy load on the [[starter motor]], such that it fails to turn the engine. Damage (due to excessive compression and even dilution of the lubricating oil with petrol) can also occur.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooded_engine

 

Theres a difference between cranking the engine and running the engine as the oil pressure hasnt built up at starter motor speed,there may be little or no oil getting to the pistons

"Misfires are bad news because unburned fuel passes right through the engine and into the exhaust. This increases emissions and also causes the catalytic converter to run hotter than normal. A really bad misfire may even damage the converter."
http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tt/tt40452.htm

Source: Champion Spark Plugs,they'r gonna say that they wanna sell you spark plugs

I'm not gonna disagree with you sibeer that theres a chance it could damage the engine,eventually I agree if you run the engine like this long enough the oil may be diluted,if a misfire is extremely bad I also agree it may damage the mesh in the Cat but this could happen at any time when he engine is in normal operation as with everything theres risk.

IMO it may be worth trying if your engines overheating,your stranded in America,"we can shout to the nearest town for help " you cant be bothered walking,you aint got breakdown cover and you havnt got a girlfriend with nice legs

 

Oh yeh happy birthday Sibeer http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/Rikky_/party-smiley-011.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/Rikky_/birthday.gif

Sorry for the double post

 

It wouldn't condense as it's too hot in the combustion chamber.


Your own link (tomorrow's technician) doesn't support your theory, and I quote,

"Misfires are bad news because unburned fuel passes right through the engine and into the exhaust"


The Wikipedia link also has no relevance, quote,

"A severe form of engine flooding is where excessive liquid fuel enters the combustion chamber"

Taking the plugs out wouldn't result in liquid fuel.

 

Thanks for the birthday wish Rikky. Agreed, in a hot engine most of the fuel will enter the exhaust, however if I was stranded, I would leave the plug wires alone and disconnect injectors if I thought it would help.

@Insomniac The combustion chamber cools when it gets rich. The gas is squeezed out of the mixture under compression and DOES take on a liquid form. The severe flooding they are talking about would be from injectors stuck open or carb problems, not misfiring plugs.

@laurieB Sorry we hijacked your thread (if your still reading it)

 

The combustion chamber doesn't cool that much.

Try putting your hand on it.

Regardless of how rich it's running, it would burn your skin off unless it was just started.


Anyway, your own links don't support that theory.

They say, and so do I, that the gas passes through the exhaust.

Says who? Simply saying it DOES isn't enough.

I say it DOESN'T, and your own links say it doesn't.

I'm open-minded, but show me proof rather than words or opinions.

 

its not that they would 'snap' but that they would shred, stretch, and/or melt.

 

No, they don't shred, stretch or melt.

They pretty strong.

About the only thing I've seen them do is slip or not turn, so you need to put them on tight.

 

I would suggest the question be put to a professional auto mechanic.

My 2 cents worth - any vapor ( gasoline, water, etc) if compressed enough will liquify (condense) - look in any physical chemistry book. (even many general chem books mention this) - Phantom can back me up on this one - he is a chemist by training.

 

Actually, this is physics, not chemistry, but yes, increasing pressure raises the temperature where a liquid can remain a liquid. Gasoline is pretty volatile, and even a non-burning cylinder remains pretty hot while running, but yes, gasoline will liquify and get past the rings. The ring/cylinder seal isn't perfect, and does a better job keeping heavy oil out of the cylinder than keeping the very thin gasoline out of the oil sump. And the cylinder's compression will be pushing the gas toward the oil side on every stroke. Plus the uneven heating would stress the block, head, and head gasket sealing.

I don't know if they still use it, but Cadillac designed an engine some years ago that would run for something like 50 miles with no water/cooling. They did it by designing a block for maximum heat transfer between cylinders without water helping, disabling half the fuel injectors (hot/cold/hot/cold), keeping the exhaust valves open on the disabled cylinders, and an engine warning lit up telling you to get your oil changed immediately.

Considering the cost of engine overhauls, I'd walk or hitch rather than risk the engine damage.

 

I am a professional auto mechanic, 27 years on Fords. G.T. and slider, you echo what I've been saying. The new Ford engines will shut down alternating cylinders if an overheat condition occurs by disabling the fuel injectors. If this fails to reduce the heat the engine will be shut down by the processor.

@Insomniac. Even if you don't believe me, you have to believe G.T.

 

I wish my old 76 Dodge Aspen slant 6 had had that. My (then) wife blew a radiator hose on the expressway and ran it until the engine seized, then called me to come and get it and "fix it". It had a temp gauge instead of an idiot light, so nothing flashed red in her face. "Idiot lights" were designed with her in mind.

 

I had the slant6 in my '68 Dodge van (looked a bit like my avatar) They were a solid engine. Rings and bearings, and maybe valve work your engine would've been running again.

 

Actually, it was running again as soon as I replaced the hose and coolant and changed the oil. Compression and oil pressure still good, and we ran it for several more years before retiring it. Popped off the valve cover and found a HUGE amount of carbonized oil built up on top of the head, but no oil passages blocked or anything. I thought sure she had killed it. Slant 6 was a VERY solid engine, but we were still pretty lucky to get off that easy.

 

Yep, liquid fuel can indeed get past the oil rings and into the engine oil, since they are only an outward pushing spring, in effect. As stated, they are not a perfect seal, and wouldn't do their job if they were. 20W-40 engine oil is one thing, liquid gasoline is another.

Plenty of info on Google to back this up, including this site:-

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/waste.htm

Getting back to the original question, I personally would, and have in the past, just run the engine real slow, when being forced to drive without a fanbelt (or a makeshift one). Disabling some of the cylinders manually is asking for trouble, i.m.o., though some people do it.

 

Where does it say that?

In fact, it says that they are expelled, quote,

"4: Now we should understand that most of the unburned fuel comes from the later phase of second stage. At this point, the piston is moving quickly down as the exhaust value begins to open. Pressure and temperature drop. Whatever fuel fragments and incomplete products exist in the cylinder when the exhaust valve opens are going to fly out the exhaust"



The problem I have is not so much if it would condense, (and it wouldn't in a hot engine), it's what happens to it.

This is the second link that states it would be expelled, and common sense tells me it would.

With the piston travelling up and down, and the valves opening and closing, it's not just going to casually trickle down the cylinder wall as suggested.

 

Why do I?

No one has supplied any proof, and the links you have supplied don't back you up, in fact the opposite.


Read your own links, you originally supplied them.

 

Maybe this is clear enough for you.

PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation):
These were our first emission control devices. (Unless you want to call a gas cap a smog device, but the first gas caps were vented, right?)
Inside the engine crankcase, where the oil lives and breathes we have gas vapors that got there by sneaking past the piston rings when the piston is compressing the air-fuel ratio or the fuel is burning up.

http://www.smogsite.com/scexplan.html

Those gas vapours are sneaking by in a normal functioning engine. Now disconnect a plug wire!

 

That's says fuel VAPOURS.

My understanding is vapour is a gas, it hasn't condensed so that link is irrelevant to this debate.


Vapour is a lot harder to contain than a liquid.

I'd love to know how it condenses in a hot engine, doesn't get expelled via the exhaust valve, then dribbles down the side of the combustion chamber (cylinder wall), dodges the piston moving up and down to end up in the crankcase?

As I said, I'm more than happy to accept something (and it wasn't me who originally posted to remove the plug leads), but you need to supply proof or answer the question above.

If it's so simple and basic, then it should be just as simple to prove it.

Until then, I'm done here.