Ok Aliens

Moving on from Lck to another unexplained phenomena.

Aiens, from space, ET's.

Yes or no?

Personally I think yes (of course :-D ) I just find it too hard to believe the size of the universe and we're the only ones in it, to me thats extreme narrow mindedness.

Also, why is it aliens always have to be portrade as vasty more intelligent to us?
Ok so they know how to travel inter-stella or at light speed etc, but do they have microwave ovens? Deoderant? the wheel?

See I see it that different planetery races will discover different things, it mat be that on another planet the fuel required to travel at those speeds is readily available sitting in pools like water does here, doesn't mean they are more intelligent, just different resources.

I also believe we descend from Aliens or were broght here by aliens, the science thing about slime makes less sense as does being created from a bloke and a woman by an apple tree with a snake.

But I wonder how many different aliens species are out there and the mind boggles at what kind of life form they are, hell they could be simply gas forms floating round or have 1 leg and just hop everywhere......and aliens are the only explination for Telephone company tech support :-D

So come on, yes or no?.....Aliens...little green men who make beep beep noises.

 

Yes.

 

Cool

 

Aliens really are among us.... you just have to look closely...

Shelagh

 

What if we really are unique? We'll never find out the answer to this question. We'll always be searching in vain.
I hate to think we are alone in a vast universe that never ends and we'll never meet another life form that ain't from earth.
Could be a really good discussion, this.
Especially when Rikky gets on board. The one gadge at MGs who could start an argument in an empty room.....

 

Rikky is half the reason I start these threads, I absolutely love his theories and logical answers.
He's the exact oposite to me :-D

As for being alone, that would suck but I just can't see how it's possible.
Even if there are just teeny tiny bugs somewhere, there HAS to be something else.

 

Absolutely!!! I BELIEVE

 

If I understand correctly from "A Brief History Of Time" by Hawking, and "The Greatest Show On Earth" by Dawkins, occurrence of the simplest form of life is highly improbable, and the evolution of life as sophisticated as our own is next to a mathematical impossibility.

If that's true, it's reasonable to expect lighting to strike twice (or more) given the sheer size of the known universe, but with rules of distribution, we'll need faster than light travel to ever meet, likely on both ends of the pipeline!

 

Exactly Halo, there are things acomplished thousands of years ago that we would struggle to produce now.
Some of the architecture and designs and ideas from acient times are just......wow.
One good example of these things is the Nazca designs in rock etc, you can only see these pictures from a great hieght, yet they created them? how did they know where to put what? and how did they get them so perfectly designed?

Things like this put a real dent in scientific answers, the pyramids and great wall can be explained to some degree although still incomprehensible to the sheer amount of man power needed to acomplish such things.

 

They've solved it on their end. We had friends over one night some time ago, and were outside watching an approaching storm. My daughter who was about 8 I think pointed out this object in the dark sky above us. It looked like a string of lights. It hung for a while, then zipped across the sky closer to the mountain range, hung there for a while, then disappeared. Even my buddy, a skeptic, had no explaination. He didn't even want to discuss it.

 

I forget who said this, "It's as absurd to think that we are alone as it is to think we are not." Heck, we just learned about bacteria feeding off of hot ocean vents that sustain colonies of life in a non-photo-synthetic way! I wonder what/ or if they have DNA, probably do. Why not have something living in liquid methane then? Might be damn slow in evolving but... We know so little of the universe or even our own environment that it would be absurd to say no!

On the subject of cosmology, I like the Hindu take on things. You have

This creation/destruction is much like the big bang theory being bandied about. Eternal big bangs and crunches. So, since we all part of the universe, then we are all part of god as there is nothing outside the entity, like Jesus purportedly said things like 'flip a rock over, I am there' meaning god is everywhere and you are a part of it, like it or not!:-D.

So, sorry for the redirect in this thread but this all follows in my head. I definitely could be wrong and probably am but nevertheless it's a nice theory. There is a reason for my sig.

 

Ball Lightning?

 

No. Individual lights no flashing.

 

I have seen ball lightning several times myself. It does sometimes happen in strings like that. Was there any sound with it?

 

No sound. The light were small not too bright.

 

No way a UFO, then. No self respecting alien would be seen in anything less than something resembling the mother ship from Close Encounters.
Seriously, why do folk associate elaborate light displays with alien intelligence? Surely, lights ain't a requirement fot interstellar travel. If anything, these entities, if they are real, are conspicuous by their lack of.....conspiuousness(?) Why would they advertise the fact they're here with a huge light show, but not show themselves? It's a bit of an oxymoron if you ask me.

 

Hahaha!

Doo-DEE-doo-dee-dooooo! :-D

 

I have a friend that is an alien. I asked him how he got here from his native lands. He said they took a train, then walked a LOT, then took the bus. Nice guy and all, speaks pretty good English, but I mean, we got buses and trains too.

:-D

I do think that if the universe is infinite, there would be life in it besides us.

 

I too have had sch an experience, forgot about it til you mentioned this lol

August 1998 I think, I wrote it in my diary.

Was maybe 1-2AM, I lived on the seafront, litterally less than 150 feet from high tide, I used to lose windows durin storms. I was sitting in my chair playing games as usual, I puased to yawn and looked out the window, on a calm night, sightly overcast but very still, I spotted a light on the horizon which was a little too high to be a ship and a little different than a star.
I watched it for a few seconds and it vanished, nothing odd there.... until a few seconds later a section (I would guess around a square mile) of the sea was lit up like day light, I could see the crab pot markers and breakwater beacons which seconds before were covered by darkness, this lasted for about 1-2 seconds, much longer than lightening, then it went dark.
The way the light came down and went again was almost as if someone had pulled curtains apart in the sky to peak down, very freaky. Then the little light was back on the horizon, it shot up at a 2 'o clock angle and vanished into the sky.

No one else I spoke to saw this and not many have believed me.
This is tre, it happend, I was not drunk or under any inflence, nor was I dreaming. There was no rain, low humidity, no distant thunder of lightening, no wind, sea was like glass and In 12 years my story has never changed.

I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was a phenomenon I cannot begin to explain.


One other thing, it's funny when I've told this story that I often use the term U.F.O. to describe the light on the horizon and people start in with the "Oh you saw aliens"
Remember what U.F.O. stands for people! the light was flying and I didn't know what it was, therefror it's a UFO lol
Hell if someone fired a pop can out of a cannon it would be a UFO to those it passed over lol

 

Well :-D what? I haven't said anything yet? :-D Yeah I think there are aliens,I agree with augie scientists seem to be looking for liquid water as they assume a high probability of life but aliens could be living anywhere even in liquid helium,life but not as we know it Jim.

To travel between stars you have to have an advanced understanding of physics,far beyond what we have which means they understand the electromagnetic spectrum and will have the tech to build a microwave this in turn means they will understand heat and pressure which you learn long before quantum mechanics which also means they could build a pressurised container so its not a question of fuel it's a question of physics.There's lots we don't know about the universe,more importantly there's lots we know we don't know and how to travel large distances while keeping ourselves alive is one of them.We don't even know if transporting the living human body between stars will ever be possible space is just too inhospitable,travelling by propulsion following Newtons laws of mass and acceleration will probably never be possible we're pretty sure of that,travelling between planets like this is very possible and one of the motivations of the fusion research,with fusion propulsion or powerful ion engines we could reach planets within a few weeks,unfortunately current ion engines only have the same power as a fly flapping its wings.

So if aliens can reach us they obviously will have means of travel far beyond ours and an understanding of the physical laws of the universe that dwarfs ours because we all live in the same universe,they have to follow the same laws we do and they have the same number of elements to work with.

It's one line of logic that would explain why we haven't had any visitors or listened to any aliens because they have come to realise that there's no point :-D Like with entertainment these days people have stopped going out we all piss away ours days watching movies and playing warcraft and we only have incredibly basic forms of entertainment,imagine when entertainments become more real than life,you can feel the wind in warcraft or actually be character in die hard 50,why risk your life going to another planet when you can send a probe to map it or scan it from home and send the data back to walk on it virtually and it will feel more real than actually going?

Turn on,tune in,bug out...

 

I think they're out there, but I think any "natural" life is gonna be carbon based and needs water and oxygen. I don't think life can form anywhere, from any thing, or it would be everywhere.

 

One problem: Can anyone find a strict definition of life? I've tried and failed.

 

Well according to Nedlamar

For a species to be technological advanced and worth discovering it must have microwaves because its so greedy it can't be bothered to wait for food to be cooked,have deodorant because it's fat A$$ stinks and have invented the wheel because its too fat and lazy to walk anywhere. :-D

I agree:cool

 

:-D Nicely done Rikky, never one to dissapoint eh

I can't argue with your points of space travel without simply throwing the "Science doesn't know everything" line at you again

As for defining life, life is something that lives, grows, feeds and dies.
Intelligent life.......thats a different matter.

@Rikky's above comment about deoderant etc, lol... funny answer :-D
I simply think about things like that with a wide open mind set, we have absolutely no idea what is out there beyond our reach and my point of the wheel and microwaves was meant to be along the lines of things species invent first.
But I guess unless they have a naturally formed "Space bubble" of some sort that transports them from point to point I guess they would have to figure things out first.
Not so much the hazzards to health because for all we know they may live on a planet with no oxygene and can therefor breath in space, or maybe they don't breath. Their bodies may be insurmountably tougher than ours in many ways..... but I have to conceed to the laws of physics etc to travel space in a built craft. I guess that building of such a craft would make them better....space ship builders than us.

Hell if you think about it , it would'nt be hard to be more intelligent than us, we can't even figure out how not to constantly fight over dirt and grass or some book written 2000 years ago :-D

 

Have you ever heard of the Drake equation Nedlamar?Yes/No? Well anyways you have now I personally don't like as it can come up with any answer you want depending on the variables you enter,for example it was written during the cold war era so when it was first theorised in 1961 one of the parameters was the probability of an intelligent life destroying itself in nuclear warfare.

Basically the drake equation is a big guesstimater disguised as science that's why I don't like it,anyway when they input all the variables into it it comes of with about 10,000 intelligent species in our galaxy.

Is it right? Your guess is as good as mine...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

 

Sounds like crap to me lol.

It sounds very much like the software they used in a TV show )and in many other walks of life) called "Deadliest Warriors" aired last year, the put histories greatest warriors head to head and played out a battle thousands of times and decleared the winner which ever one had more victories. Very interesting but complete guess work really.
Example, they had a Spartan vs a Ninja.
The first thing wrong with this is Spartans fought as a unit, Ninja's fought alone, the Spartan won to my delight :-D but realistically speaking a lone Spartan would probably lose to a lone ninja , where a unit of Ninja's would probably get steamrolled by a unit of Spartans.
Just the variables they put into the software were 1vs1.

I guess I'm just open to many possibilities, I don't outright believe something just beause someone says it to be true. I take the information given and come to my own conclusions about what can be possible.
With reguards to things like this anyway lol

 

Yeah I can't stand deadliest warrior because of its unscientific nature,the most annoying thing about that show is none of the experiments were done under scientific control and there were very few measurements taken.For example when they were testing the Russian and American grenades they put one in a washing machine and the other in a small shed with a dummy:confused Surely if your comparing the two you do the same thing with each...

Just to bring up one of your earlier points,there are much more serious problems than breathing in space when travelling through it in fact we're really good at being able to breath in space we can send people up there for years.

Here are a couple of the main problems;

Accelleration and time

An organic lifeform can only handle about 3G's for prolonged periods which means it will literally take us years to accelerate up to any viable interstella speed 'close to the speed of light 'and then it will take years to slow down again otherwise the G-force would just kill us.

E=MC2

All matter or mass has the equivalent energy of its mass multiplied by the speed of light squared which is a huge amount of energy,if your travelling pretty fast anything you hit won't just go through your spaceship like in the movies it will hit and turn into pure energy which we know as an explosion,one grain of sand has enough mass or energy to blow apart any spaceship you want to build so unless there's a perfect empty vacuum from here to your destination which is pretty unlikely your spaceship will be blown apart.

BTW I said science doesn't know everything too

 

It's true that science doesn't know everything, but I would hazard to say that science knows best. (Maybe second to math?)

Anyway, what about folding space? Know any interesting problems with that, Rikky?

I love this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q_GQqUg6Ts

 

:cry you tell me I want to read some stuff :-D

EDIT The only place I can think of that folds time and space is a black hole which are too far away for us to play with anyway,I believe the new hadron collider could possibly create small pockets of time and space that are folded in on themselves and small black holes,nothing big enough to travel though but if they could send a couple of binary particles as a signal you could send a message back or forward in time,there's actually a physicist in America that's researching bending time and space with lasers,lasers are used because light and time are so tightly inter tangled.

 

Hahaha... well, first and most obvious that I can see is our lack of understanding of particle physics, and that the LHC seems to keep blowing up on us! :-D

The theory of it all still kinda bends my brain a little.

 

Thanks for the awesome link, Mada . Here is another one, describing how String Theory, M-Theory, and Multi-Verse concepts are not necessarily incompatible with 'Mind of God' concepts.
(For those not familiar with String and M-Theory - suggest viewing a few of these clips first). Shoes, (in a small part), that the Theodicy between Science Vs Theology Vs humanity does not need to exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9feXeL-3XA&NR=1

 

Ya, carbon is the uber polygamist in the chemical world but why not sulfur based life exist given the right conditions. What are those conditions? All we're doing ATM is looking at life as if we are the paradigm to follow, we are it as the only model that we know of intimately!

With this kind of prejudicial thinking we could kill a whole intelligent civilization that doesn't conform to our ideas of what it is without even knowing it. Another 'everything revolves around the earth' type thinking.

 

Yes, on the potential of life forms other that carbon base. Could also be silicon base, (rock type creatures), various gases, or most intriguing of all, not life forms at all, but non-the-less sentient beings, being formed of fluxins of intelligent energy. They would ave thought, but no physical form, and therefore not subject to many of the limitations of biological life-forms.

 

I have to agree there, I enjoy the show because I love seeing and learning abot this kind of thing and it was cool, but the tests as you say were ......stupid.
There were so many times where they would hit or cut the dummie with one weapon and then test the comparitive weapon with a pig.

New season starting on the 20th though, Celts are up first , not sure against who, probably the Marines or something stupid lol.

Thats was the other thing, they pitched the wrong matches, Viking against Apache?......Spartan VS Ninja? weird.

I agree, my point and way of thinking is not to whether the laws are different but simply they may be able to simply handle more punishment than us, they might have a bone and organ strcture 1000 times stronger than ours or they might just be gas. Thats what I mean, we simply don't know and thats why it's interesting :-D

@Other people lol...... Thanks for reply guys and links, will be reading and watching tomorrow. This thread is becomming interesting lol

 

What it would look like to travel at the speed of light,I watched this about 3 years ago I just spent 30 mins finding it again,special relativity were the key words:-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAII_crHHc&feature=related

 

Rikky, that was beyond my mental acuity!!

 

Tell me which bits you don't understand and I'll explain them if your interested?

 

Hmm, I'll have to watch this while sober or....:innocent:-D I like the YT tree on the side, lots of good stuff there. This is bookmarked. Thanks Rikky. Did you know that astronauts actually age less in space than they would here according to the theory? I wonder if anyone sent up a synced nuclear time clock into space yet to see what the difference is?

 

This is the twins paradox. It is supposed to be measurable here on earth, even, with one twin living at sea-level, and another living on a mountaintop.

 

I missed this, but yes, this is what I've been getting at, open your minds, think beyond the limitations of scientific knowledge.

@Rikky.... I have to admit I didn't understand that vid 100% but man it was interesting, great find

 

Are you suggesting the more people believe, the more likely we are to meet aliens?

Sounds very much like a diet sheet I read today that said "Research shows that smell may influence you sense of fullness more than the amount of food you eat"
So you don't need to eat, just sniff it :-D

 

Well there's two types phenomenon happening,one is gravitational time dilation dealt with in General relativity and the other is time dilation from an initial point of reference dealt with it Special relativity.

The closer you are to the central point of gravity such as the earth the slower that time passes but paradoxically the faster you travel the slower time appears to travel relative to an initial frame of reference.

This page explains how much time dilates the faster you travel 'The twins paradox' with some pretty good examples like journey times to stars close to us.If you notice the graph on the right of that page it shows what's know as the gamma factor,this is the amount time dilates with regard to your speed its represent by an upside down y which is the Greek letter gamma,its also sometimes called the Lorentz factor that's what that number is at the bottom right of the video I posted,it only really become significant when you get really close to the speed of light 'a few percent off'

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/T/timedilation.html

This one explains gravitational time dilation.

http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/GeneralInterest/Harrison/GenRel/TimeDilation.html

There's actually a record held by an astronaut 'A Russian I think' for travelling the most time backawards,he spent 2 years or something on the Mia space station travelling at 25,000mph which sent him backwards in time a few milliseconds,I still can't find a link to it though.

 

You ever heard of Schrodingers cat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxqTtiWxs4

 

Huh? I wasn't disagreeing with you I was kind of agreeing with your earlier post regarding not enough people believing in stuff by quoting Schrodingers cat,it's very similar.

The universe doesn't know what it is until we have a look.