Poor Little Frog!

=[ I dissected a frog today =[

Attached is a picture of his lifeless carcus before i opened him.

 

I thought it was fascinating myself, dissecting helps you to learn. Yup, it only gets better. The one I didn't like, was the worm. Totally gross! :eek The rest I didn't mind at all.

 

lol people always say that. What exactly did you learn TC? And don't say "Anatomy" I mean specifically, how did it help you in life?
Given that , that is the reason for learning in school, to prepare you for life.

I never saw the need for it myself, I know how the body works well enough, I never disceted anything

@Laura... You disected a cat? Man I could find so many places that would be illegal lol

 

lol This is the old tale, I argue with my missus about this. Ok so you need to know this stuff IF you're going into a profession that requires it, but I don't see that need until you choose that route. Not many schools teach people how to wire a fuse box, but more people will end up needing to know that than how a frogs guts work.

If you took biology out of choice then fine, but if you're forced to do it then personally I think it's wrong.

As for what I took, I took Science, it covered all aspects. None of it has helped me in life lol, in fact the only thing I learnt at school that has helped is reading, writing and math.
Everything else was a waste of time lol

Although education is sooooo important now, I mean you need a university degree to be a secretary earning $10 an hour.
Too much emphasis on education nowadays.

A good example, I'm a qualified Carpenter and Bricklayer, I have no pieces of paper because I got my knowledge in apprenticeships on site, I'm good at what I do and have over 15 years experience in total. Yet some 19 y/o lad straight out of school will get a job before me because he has a piece of paper, yet when he comes up against real problems with houses more than 10 years old he has no idea what to do.
I've actually proven this lol

Anyway, I'm ranting because this forcing everyone into university annoys me, the world is short on people willing to work, everybody wants a high paying office job.
Thats fine, but where are you going to live if there is no one to build a house for you?
How are you going to get to work if there's no one to repair your car?

The world is crying out for manual labourers and Doctors admittedly but most people go for something in computers, fine 10 years ago but now only about 30% of people who qualify in this area actually get a good job, meaning more unemployment. Canada, the USA and the UK have some of the most highly qualified cab drivers in the world.

lol Rant over, I shouldn't get into these conversations lol

 

Hmmm you make a good point, but by the same token if someone is adamant about NOT wanting to do it then they shouldn't be forced to.
I never had any interest whatsoever in the anatomy field and had I been asked to dissect something I would have refused resulting in some form of fail. Thats wrong.

Think about it logically, the things everyone should know are basic mechanics, basic tool understanding and use, basic electrical, basic foods and hygene and basic computers.
These are things that 99.9% of people will need to use at some point.
These are the things that should be requirements in education.

It's shocking how little kids know about these things, I live in Canada and before that the UK and I've had several teenagers work with or for me and they just can't do the simplest tasks.
Obviously this doesn't apply to all, but a very high percentage.
Example... Screw a piece of wood to a wall.

Results:

"I can't hold the wood, screw AND drill all at the same time, it's impossible"
I pick it up and do it instantly, this wasn't a trick or something I was taught to do, it's bloody common sense.
Lacking in many education systems is the teachings of thinking.
Seriously, without any education on the subject I learnt by the age of 17 how to strip a motorbike and put it back together, why? because I couldn't afford a mechanic, so I got a book and learnt. This is one of thousands of skills I self taught myself that was not available at school.
It's called improvisation, adapting, overcoming.
A huge percentage of kids now don't have these skills, why? Because they type a question into google and it gives them the answer, they write it down and promptly forget it.
They get an equation and punch it into a calculator, get the answer and write it down but don't know WHY that answer is correct.
Yet ask them how MSN or Facebook works and they are all over it.

Don't get me wrong, it's not the kids fault, it's society is trying to make life too easy.
Not everything is reachable with the click of a button.

BTW, I speak from the experience of having a 17 y/o son and a 16 y/o nephew. My son not stupid, he's very intelligent but he's bread to be lazy, my nephew can read 3 Harry Potter books in a day and does well in school but has no idea how anything works other than computers and calculators because he's bread to be lazy and thats what it boils down to, they make it too easy and therefor laziness kicks in.

Now, don't get me wrong here either, there's nothing easy about school and the things they learn, but the way they learn it doesn't instill a sense of work. I know what I mean lol
Maybe I look at this from a poor working class perspective but thats the way I see it.

 

Re:Ned:-
Well, I'd say the least popular subjects at school would be Math and English, which I'm sure you'll agree are probably the most important subjects. Going by your argument, should they be able to skip these classes because they don't want to be a Writer or Accountant?

I was one that did attend, (several) Universities and whereas I can't categorically tab each item of knowledge/skill as directly useful, many, many aspects come in handy on a daily basis. There is no such thing as useless knowledge, but whether one wants to put a use to it is another question.

Yes, I went into Science for an occupation for many years, but I still did units at high school in bricklaying, painting, welding, etc. Should I have refused these? No, it all adds to what I term the general wealth of knowledge/skills, i.m.h.o. My army experience also taught me on many levels. And guess what – refusal was not an option there, either.

I know of people who actually did degrees, and decide they would rather be a Trucker or something. Whatever floats your boat, i.m.o.

Not wanting to do physical work does not necessarily equal laziness. Actually I've found a lot more people who will work their guts out for sport, or whatever and not even want to rub two grey cells together to work out a basic, common sense problem.

The world needs all kind of folk. Educated and uneducated. But educated usually have the advantages. Of course there are also plenty of what I would term 'educated idiots' around, too.

 

lol I have to admit half of what I typed is because I'm in a bad mood so please excuse me if I sound a bit arrogant.

I don't expect everyone to be able to do my job, I DO however expect everyone to be able to figure out how to use the things dangling from their shoulders lol

I realize we need professions of all walks of life otherwise none of us would have anything. We NEED the guys at the supermarkets, we NEED the guys in the banks......well sort of lol etc etc, my point is basic skills mankind has known for thousands of years.

My generation is pretty much adapted to most simple tasks in life, my fathers generation even more so and so on and so forth.

The key word there is "Simple" the tasks I speak of are simple ones a monkey can do, I'm quite sure the same book I read for the bike would help you in the same way if you needed it to. I'm quite sure you know how to hang a picture (please say yes lol)

Having said that I think back to a radio lunchtime trivia thing a few months ago that was a question of...

"40% of men over 25 admit to not knowing how to do this"

Myself and my boss were guessing, sewing or cooking or computers etc, the answer was.....are you ready for this?...you might want to sit down first.....here it comes...

The answer was, "40% of men over 25 admit to not knowing...how to change a tire"

I ask, what in gods name is going on in the world?

And this is what I'm talking about, not being strong enough or equipped is 1 thing, but not knowing? come on...

But I do understand and agree with pretty much everything you said, I guess I just come from the school of life and have HAD to adapt and learn myself.

Oh by the way, I could stitch up my boys arm if need be, I was a beach lifeguard and was trained to do that
See, I had a job caring for the health and well being of humans and never done dissecting in school but still knew how to do it. We trained on plastic dummies lol not quite as gross and not cruel either lol

And thanks for the welcome, I think I've spoken to you before though but it's ok you don't remember me, I'm not that memorable :-D


Edit: the whole skipping stuff in school, like I said, the important skills such as math, english, and basic skills in tools, mechanics etc etc are the ones that should be forced, that was kind of my point. Anatomy is more of a specialist subject given the ratio of builders, mechanics, bankers etc etc to Doctors and surgeons.
Although I'm sure if governments paid docs and nurses more we wouldn't have the shortage lol

Edit: Edit: Hmm thinking about it I do see your point and as Phantom said as well as you Laura, I guess it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

 

My father had a mink ranch. I've skinned thousands of mink as a kid. Those classrooms dissections were pretty tame in comparison.

 

Before I fly out, I just want to add.

Any youngsters reading this, don't take my views as red, education is extremely important especially nowadays.

I'm quite sure the reason I've never had any decent money at my disposal is because I had a poor education and didn't follow through. (my choice)

I'm one of those working class hero's who always moans about people who earn twice as much as me but do half the work lol

Having said that, if you have an easier life than me with more money and less physical labour, more power to you. You did something right that I didn't.

Basically, if you want a good life and not have to constantly juggle money, get yourself a good education

 

To answer your question you asked me, plenty. I took Biology and Science in school, and many other subjects. but to answer you specifically, I learned plenty. "Anatomy"? Not necessarily, but more on how that frog's insides are so much like our own. Yes, I did enjoy it, and went on to higher Biology. Now, I actually enjoyed that class, and Math also. I excelled in them. BUT, I liked them, and not everyone did. Biology was an elective class at the time. I 'elected' for it, and got it. As far as my Primary classes went, I took them too, but like Laura has already stated, if the student isn't interested, it will show. For me, I loved Biology, Math & Art, and it showed. But, I hated History. Go figure. But then again, My personal preference. That experience had helped me a lot. Life isn't black and white, as I am sure you have found out. One size doesn't fit all.

OK, so how did you learn that? You weren't born knowing that information.. And, kids today, NEED that education, more now than ever before. They need to experience these different opportunities.....

Laura is so right. When our family Dr. passed away last year, he didn't even attend his own funeral. Why? Because he donated his body to science, to the very university he attended.. Why? That was his wish, to be able to help others learn about the human body. He used to say, "Heck, what good is it going to do me when I die anyway? Might as well help a medical student learn something!" He used to say that a lot. His wishes were granted, and he has two sons that are Doctors now.

So, without that learning, would you want to be their first patient? I am glad to see it, myself. I still find it fascinating.. You can dissect a frog, and see a lot of the same innards that you have.


Education has to start somewhere, and altho I didn't end up a Doctor, I can be a wicked Nurse Ratchet! Even got references for that

 

Ok TC, congratulations on getting a good education and enjoying it, pitty it wasn't the same for everyone.

But I think you didn't read any of my thoughts after the post you replied to.
My point wasn't so much that it's just wrong, my point was it's wrong to force someone who doesn't want to gut a frog to do so.
I've thought about this and saying that giving kids the choice they will always say no, is correct. But we are not talking about writing an essay or solving equasions, we are talking about cutting up an animal, big big difference.
You say you enjoyed it and most importantly, you "Elected" to do it, thats fine.
But what about those who don't want to do it? Should they still have to?
You also say you learned that a frog works similar to a human, great.....you couldn't have gotten that from a book?
I asked the question "What did you actually learn" meaning what did you really learn from gutting the frog that you couldn't have learnt from a book?
And yes, these disections are important in the medical field and I have no problem with that.
Lets hypothesize (spelling lol, lack of education :-D ) , say you live in a country that one of the things they consider you need to learn is how to use an assualt rifle.
There are many countries that do this, Russia has schools where they teach 11 y/o's how to field strip and use an AK47. Now as far as they are concerned that is something you need to know. If they did that in a US or Canadian School there would be uproar.
How about a school that teaches you how to skin a dog?
Would you enjoy that? Would you consider that wrong?
The need is learning how to prepare food.

My point is that gutting a frog or any animal is not a necessity, you don't NEED to do that to learn.
You ask me where my knowledge of anatomy comes from? Books.
A picture with explination is just as effective as seeing a dead animal laid out in front of you.
When you move up to higher education in that field then yes, you need to work with practical subjects.

I just personally feel that it's wrong to force kids to do something that is not very nice and is out of the realm of day to day necessity.
How many kids have thrown up or burst into tears because they are forced to do this?
How many kids have stood there gutting an animal while crying?
I'm sure those kids would agree with me and the only thing they learnt from it is that an animals insides are gross.

Choose to do it for learning and interest, fine, no problem at all.
Be forced to do something like this when you really have no interest, can get the same info from a book and strongly dissagree with the process, is wrong.
I would even go as far as to say it's barbaric. Almost torture for some kids.
This is 2010, not 1920.
This kind of thing is easily simulated on a computer.
Yet they feel the need to force many kids to do it, yet they wont force a kid to learn how to change engine oil, you have to choose to do that IF your school has it as an option.
So like I said, which is more usful to more people on a day to day basis?

Knowing a frog has similar insides to humans?
Or knowing how to change oil?

Yet which is taught more?

What your Doctor did was very nobel and I have no quarms about that whatsoever.

Having said that, don't you think with technology the way it is, we couldn't create sinthetic humans and animals to teach this if it's so necessary?
A tv show can use sinthetic humans to show damage from weapons, why can't that tecnology go 1 step further and make organs inside it?

Look at what we can do, we have computers 10,000 times more powerful than the NASA computers of the 70's/80's that are not only the size of a ciggerette pack, but also owned by 70% of kids just so they can listen to music.
We have blackboards that are digital touch screen.
We have machines that can view the parting in your hair from space.
Hell I'm talking to you right now from my living room on a little machine smaller than a briefcase.
So why can't this sort of thing be simulated in some way?

I'll tell you why, money.
It's the old story, living or former living things are free, technology costs money and god forbid any more money goes into education.

Then there's the other point, what about the frogs?
Ugly little creatures, slimey, smelly.
So that means all they are good for is to be killed and gutted so 1 out of 50 kids will learn something while the rest either puke on it or dangle it around and make it dance.
I realize this sounds a bit green peace but frogs are a very very very important part of the ecosystem. There are parts of the world now uninhabbited by life because the species of frogs died out. Don't believe me, go look it up.
Frog dies, nothing to eat flies. Flies eat all the vegetation, all other animals in thatarea no longer have enough food, population decreases while the flies flourish and keep eating until there's nothing left to eat. Then the flies die off and you're left with a wasteland.

Ok so the frogs you use probably aren't hurting the ecosystem but I just used that as an eample before anyone says "They're only frogs"

Anyway, like I said, education is very important.
Being forced to gut a dead animal is wrong And pretty pointless on the grand scale of things.

 

OK, Nedlamar, I am not even going to answer any of the questions in your last post. You only want to argue with me, and I am not here for that. I stated facts. Fine, if you agree, but don't start the Russia and AK47's bit here. this is not a political thread.

I will say this: I HAVE gutted plenty of game. I lived thru the frog, and I clean my own deer, and bear, gutted, skinned, and cut & wrap, and I am still alive. I never seen anyone puke doing it either... I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I am DONE with this one. :wave

 

Thats fine. I don't expect you to, it's a free world you do as you please.
I mearly voiced my opinions on the educational system.

And yes I may have gone a little OTT, but when I get going I keep going until I'm satisfied I have made my point.

None of what I said was in argument or in anger, just discussing a topic, I'm pretty sure thats what the lounge is for, correct?

Anyway, I don't wish any bad feeling so if I offended you then I apologize.
But my opinions remain my own as do yours

 

Yeah, Honors did the pig. Regular bio did the frog.

And Laura, your daughter's 13??? :-D

 

lmao Smooth, very smooth :cool