Powerline Adapter Networking

Mornin' Laura.

Yeah, it's been around for a while. Most of the major bugs have been worked out, so I think the main reason the technology is not more widespread is because of proprietary reasons - ISPs vs. power companies vs. phone companies vs. television companies with a good dose of lawyers thrown in the mix.

Wouldn't surprise me if everything that we use in that genre (phone, internet, power, tv) isn't beamed in on one carrier eventually, within the next few years - the science is ready for it, but we humans aren't quite there yet. :confused

 

Certainly worth a try, especially if you're having connection dropouts. If you do decide to get one let us know how it goes.

 

Very cool! I have heard of this before LauraR. I wonder if there are speed limitations on using this technology. :cool

 

Hi Laura,
One of the main limitations if you want full functionality is you have to have single phase power. In my case it won't work very well because I have a very big air conditioner so I have 3 phase power connected to my house. You could run it on only one of the phases in your three phase installation but then it would only work on the power outlets on the same phase. Usually the electrician balances the power outlets over all three phases so it would be pot luck which rooms were on the same phase rolleyes
I suppose you could get a wifi one and use wifi for all the rooms on a different phase but then you are limited to wifi speeds and this is quite variable depending on reception, local interference and also signal propagation from the antenna.
If you want some info on 3 phase power good old wikipedia can help here
Heads up..... it may be a boring read unless you are really interested rolleyes

@hitest, I helped one of my close friends setup his home network using ethernet over power and we used several of these Netcomm NP507 and they run at 600MB/s which is pretty good :cool
They were pretty straight forward to setup and they have been running without fault for about 6 months and after saying that, not wanting to tempt fate, I quickly touch my wooden desktop LOL
I believe gigabit ones are now available but I haven't had the need to check

@Caliban, I first used ethernet over power about 3½ years ago and it was a crock of s**t. :crap I think IIRC it was an early D-Link system rated at 100MB/s. I have used two different brands (Netcomm and TP-Link) in the last year and they were both excellent to setup long as you know what you are doing. The Netcomm was slightly faster (extra 100MB/s) than the TP-Link but that was also a newer faster model that had just been released when I bought it.:-D
Both have been very stable and both run at their quoted speeds :cool

 

The biggest problem you find, is in Multi-Tenant Dwellings (ie apartment buildings). Due to people forget that they need to secure the device with a Passphrase or even with the plug-in Wifi extenders, you find that people just plug them in like a router, and leave them set as default.

They have come a long way from five years ago.

 

One issue I've seen involves which circuit(s) the expansion boxes are connected to.

For the fastest speed, both the transmitting and receiving device should be on the same circuit breaker. If this is not possible, both (all) devices must be hooked up in the same breaker box.

A transmit/receive box will NOT work if connected to a separate breaker box. Examples of this include larger commercial buildings or an out building (barn, pool house, etc.). In this case, you're better off with a commercial grade Wi-Fi system like those found in hotels.

 

You actually want to try and to have them on the Same Leg, not same Circuit Breaker. In a three Phase Electrical system, it makes it harder to set these units up.

In a typical home or Apartment building, that uses Single phase Electrical, you can use a .1 micro-farad capacitor, rated for 400vAC across the breakers, to allow communication between legs.

The problems end up, when you have AFCI or GFCI Circuit Breakers, or a Whole Panel Surge protector, which also kills EMI/RFI.

 

Yes Laura most homes would be single phase unless they have a really big refrigerated air conditioner :cool

Three phase is the worst case but there are work arounds although the solution is not always ideal also in my experience it doesn't matter so much if they are on separate circuit breakers so long as they are on the same phase. I found speed to be more dependent on the length of cable run as I set one up in a house that had an external shed and the speed to the shed was on average 20% slower than the rest of the network. Although the shed had its own switchboard, the whole installation was a single phase dwelling so it was OK because the shed and the house were on the same phase. :cool

You have a very valid point about unsecured networks. Friends have asked me to check why they have such high internet usage and I have found unsecured wifi routers, laptops, mobile phones and ipads with neighbours still connected by wifi rolleyes
After choosing a very secure passphrase and selecting a good protocol (WPA2) then a reboot it is goodbye to the leeching neighbours LOL

 

This is an interesting point that I will read up on as this may be a precursor to change over here Thanks for that :cool
Before I became an Electronic Engineer I used to be an 'A' Grade electrician and in Oz, generally any power conditioning/EMI reduction/surge protection is done after the switchboard and not inside the switchboard but this may have started changing in the last couple of years although I haven't encountered any of this yet.
Generally here in Oz EMI reduction is done at the portable appliance or inside the device being direct connected to the mains :major

re: AFCI or GFCI Circuit breakers
In Oz to reduce the risk of electric shock due to faulty appliances being plugged into a GPO (general power outlet) all new domestic and commercial installations plus any additions to an existing installation over here since the early 90s (depends which state) must be protected by either RCDs (residual current devices) or ELCBs (earth leakage circuit breakers) or a core balance circuit breaker system. We have either a 240VAC @50Hz single phase supply or a 415VAC @50Hz two phase supply or a 415VAC @50Hz three phase supply and the required trip time is <200ms although typical trip times are ~40ms. This means just about every installation over here has AFCI or GFCI circuit breakers and ethernet over power works here without any problems.
Here is some info on RCDs and ELCBs thanks again to Wikipedia

 

I've installed a lot of powerline networks for clients and friends, and "on the same circuit" seems to be the biggest issue. But discovering "the same circuit" can be a problem. Except...

There are two things I recommend to folks trying this out:

(1) Buy the powerline 'kit' locally. This makes a return and refund as painless and quick as possible.

(2) Powerlines have a great feature: "they either work, or they don't." If they don't work, I discover that within minutes. I can try different wall-sockets and sometimes find "the same circuit" - but that's as easy and quick as almost any other method. Plug in the Base Unit, go a few wall-sockets away, try it there. Get the three lights? It's working! Now, move to another room, further away. Step by step.

This "It either works or it doesn't" process may take 10-15 minutes. Pretty quick and direct. (Of course, this isn't definitive proof of "the same circuit" but it IS definitive proof of it working!)

If I can't find the most preferred location, there is one more alternative - find the most distant Working Location, and hook up a wireless extender/second-router and 'go wireless' from there.

Now... if I can just find someone with good experience using DOCSIS 3.0 networks - using a house's TV-Coax-Cabling!!

 

If there was a devious notion, some consumer might buy locally, test out the products and return and then purchase at a lower price on-line.

I haven't seen a name-brand failure - if DLink works, Netgear works. If Rosewill works, Belkin and any other works on the same circuitry. (That said, I believe every manufacturer is as likely to deliver a lemon or DOA unit as any other - I think all of these are mass-purchased and rebranded.)

If there's any reliability issues, it seems more related to the more mature and reliable "200" speed series vs. the newer "500" series. Some claim the 500's "flakey" connections are due to higher-speeds-requires-best-wiring, and thus anything less than best home-wiring can breed the lowered reliability of the 500s.

Then again, I revert to my previous counseling: "They either work, or they don't." Try the 500s and if they fail, try the 200s. (500 "failures" will probably be flakey so you may want to be 'on-line' for an hour or so, as opposed to "plug and wait 5 minutes" testing for the 200s.)

The components for the 200 series products have been around for 5 years, I think, whereas widespread 500-series are fairly new - this past year or so. I'd imagine every product's Version 1.0 is never as good as 2nd generation.

 

Neat thread. I heard about this a while back then forgot about it. Could be a useful item. :cool

 

(I wasn't looking at vendor-names before my last post. I used the name "Belkin" offhandedly but this repackaging-rebranding outfit probably uses the lowest-of-low quality parts. I tend to avoid Belkins for most products but their powerlines probably observe the same rules: "They either work or don't.")

ZyXel is actually one of the older 'brands' to consider. ZyXel was producing some of the first 'cheaper clone' modems in the days of Hayes & 14.4 modems, 28.8s and 33.6s. ZyXel might actually be an older brand-name than DLink and Netgear, come to think of it. I have installed dozens of their 'kits' with success, and they're usually cheaper than DLinks and Netgears.

TP-Link, Tenda, TrendNet are all newer brands (3-5 years?) and when we buy dozens of units for installs, we'll price out bulk purchases among those and ZyXels. If I'm buying single-installs, my purchase decision is based solely on "how quick and easy is it for me to return and replace any DOAs?"

A "DOA" unit will be fairly easy to determine. In the Computer Room, I plug in the base powerline unit. Then, I find the nearest 'next outlet' and plug in the Receiver Unit. This should show me "3 steady lights" within a minute or two.

If it doesn't, I might try another wall outside in that room, or one room away. Those just about never are on diff circuits - house electricians aren't THAT energetic!

Some tech folks (at Dlink, Netgear) claim their units might actually 'die' over time, and need replacements, like some kind of battery. Instead, I've found that occasional unplugging, waiting for 10 minutes or so, and re-plugging solves "an apparently dead" unit. I don't know if there's a heat issue (if so, it's a badly manufactured product, or maybe I drop-kicked it?) or something like a DeGaussian Effect that needs to be addressed (which can be sensible - we ARE talking about electricity and its magnetic side-effects).

 

My rationale for Buy Locally is purely price and convenience. BestBuys often sell a limited selection (compared to NewEgg/Amazon) but their 'kits' are in the $60-70 range. Plus tax. (Remember to add that.)

Mail-order, I can get these kits in the $50-60 range, without tax. So, I'll save $15-20 at the most.

I'll spend 30-minutes in a set-up. If all goes well, I've got it up and running in 15 minutes. If units don't work, I might spend a hair-pulling hour, wasting the entire time because (1) home circuitry isn't cooperating, or (2) I've got a DOA unit (not likely).

The drive back for replacement/refund is going to be 10-15 minutes. Waiting in line, another 10 minutes.

If I've got to RMA it, then I'm going to spend about the same amount of time doing the RMA, plus about $10 in packing expenses, then I've got a post-office queue to wait thru - that's ALWAYS longer than a BestBuy Return Process.

For $15-20 savings? Uh. No thanks. It's simply not worth the frustration. Some RMAs will also strip off "15% restocking fee", too, which is a greater expense than both the drive-to-return AND sales-tax to begin with.

(If I've returned 10 kits, every one of those were Uncooperative Circuitry issues, not DOAs, by the way.)

 

One other point to consider: a few Powerline Kits are 3-prongs, while most are 2-prongs. Since I run across clients in older homes sometimes, I always choose 2-prong kits - they are far more common, but I could imagine 'not noticing' and picking up one only to discover they can't be used.

And every manufacturer claims "you must plug unit into the wall socket, not some power-strip or anything else but the bare wall-socket."

 

I've always bought networking equipment locally, due to how often it breaks and/or is DOA.