Running a smooth W98se.. for the novice...

As I said in an earlier post XP in its 'raw' state can be ackward. It needs to be tamed with many of the default services shutdown and quite a few registry tweaks implemented. Furthermore, for my money SP1 is the one to go for as the 'enhancements' in SP2 are security based and superfluous and can easily be replaced by 3rd party progs/utilities. But that is my own personal point of view.

There was no need to switch completely to XP, as you could easily changed your system to dual boot. Then that way you have the best of both world. The only difficulty I envisage with 98SE is an AV which works and provides updated AV definitions. But that can to an extent be overcome by running an 'ondemand' AV scanner such as ClamWin.

Good Luck

 

That is so misleading, risk. Absolutely no tweaking needs to be done to XP, if you have decent hardware. Even low hardware requirements are fine, if you have at least 1gb of ram. The reccomended requirements for XP are way off. Kind of like for Vista. I am the on ly truly computer literate person in my family, and they all run XP. NONE of them have problems with XP in its raw state. No problems, no difficulties.

Tweaking is for power users...

I can see a 98 user finding XP different though. Its a completely different OS, with a completely different kernel.

Edit: To not use SP2 is a fool's errand too. There are many security fixes that cannot be supplied by third party apps. The important things are what go on behind the scenes, not what you can see. Not to mention, not running SP2 excludes you from some WIndows Updates.

 

I do apologise Adrynalyne if my comments in respect of XP were interpreted as 'misleading'.

As regards your comment suggesting that not using XP SP2 is a 'fool's errand', of course you entitled to your opinion. However, since you lack detailed information as to how my systems are set up and defended (without the help of SP2) then in this respect also you are merely voicing your personal opinion.

Good Luck

 

Normally and I find myself agreeing with Adrynalyne's comments,often learning from them.
However in this case I can't agree.

In its desire to be all things to all men, women and even geeks, Windows necessarrily carries a deal of excess baggage that any individual user will never need. Each user will need different bits.

For example there are drivers for thousands of chips, cards and peripherals and stuff that will not be connected. There are screensavers, display schemes and sounds ..........
These are just simple customisations that an ordinary user can do ditching the components he will never need.

Then there is swopfile, hibernationfile, and prefetch optimisation depending upon the intended use.
And of course there are policies to be set, and so on..

So really this does deserve a separate thread if any one wants optimisation advice.


Studio T

 

You merely proved my point that tweaking is for power users.

The average consumer could give a squat about that.

The average user wants to use a computer to do a job, walk away, and forget about it. No tweaking, no micro management. XP in its ground state will do just that.

 

To each their own. Like I said, what you see on the surface, are the minor things for SP2. Trust me, its a whole bunch more than an updated firewall. But hey, maybe it is my opinion. I welcome you to enlighten me as to the third party apps that provide all these fixes.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/811113
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2chngs.mspx
(Memory protection was a huge change in SP2)

Thanks

 

Adrynalyne quote:

Edit: To not use SP2 is a fool's errand too...

I guess i must be a FOOL i have been using SP1 for two years no virus or spyware...

I realy like WIN98SE i update to XP 2 years agos.....

I guess i must be a good FOOL

 

If the shoe fits...just about nobody so far has understood a word I've said. I've no problem with the OS, but the XP talk in here is nothing short of ludicrous. Would that be the reason so many are still using 98, is because they actually don't understand XP? That would explain a lot. I assure you, less viruses/malware in 98 have nothing to do with the security of the OS. Hackers know full well that you attack the most common OS for maximum effect. Hence the lack of viruses in old, dead OSes, and alternative OSes.

Oh and Clark, things you don't see.

I did MS support for four years. I was there when XP launched. I was there for SP1. I was there for SP2. SP2 lowered our malware/virus call volume (power users dont call MS). Comments?

Who knows,maybe its not needed afterall. I believe that a power user can get by without SP2. I believe however, every average user SHOULD have it. Guess what the net is comprised of? The majority are not power users....you decide what category you are in, OK? Then note the title of the thread says, "for the novice".

Why exactly people are giving not-so novice advice about XP, in a "novice" thread, is beyond me. Maybe everyone bashing XP should ask themselves that, then stick to the subject of the thread.

 

I was just poking you a little Adrynalyne yep i guess i am a power user
i don't want to upgrade to SP2 because all people tell me they're computer
almost drop by 50 % in speed.....

So that why i don't touch it...Anyways since you work for microsoft support maybe you know that one, could check my thread i need to buy a new harddisk next week here my thread http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=121365

 

The only speed decrease would be related to driver or software conflicts. Even then, thats highly unlikely.

 

Every time windows access a file it has to sort hrough lots that don't need to be there. Every time the user does a defrag the system must shuffle files around the hard drive that don't need to be there every time windows calls amutex there is achance of a dll coonflict with a dll tha tdoes not need to be there.

Why do you think that commercially all this rubbish is stripped out?

Studio T

 

I am NOT a power user and my XP is a fresh reinstall from the partition. XP has been giving me fits, by not doing what IT says it is supposed to do.
I got SP1 and SP2 and all the rest of the three hours worth of MS stuff. If there are hardware conflicts, then XP doesn't say so and HP put the sucker together... I haven't changed it.
Sure, I had issues with Win98SE, but they were quick and easy to fix. In the end, hitting cntrl-alt-delete, showed me five items... and this wasn't fancy computer wizardry, just a new-to-computer person who did a little web searching and spent a tiny bit of quality time with the Start-Up utility.
The biggest troubles I got from 98SE was when programs I wanted needed versions of **Trying to recall exactly** Active X or Direct X or Flash or something like that, that would not run on my machine... a support issue, not an OS issue.
I can not say that XP is total crap, but my machine should be running a hail of a lot faster than it is, but because of all the extra stuff XP loads... that could/SHOULD be loaded on demand and not at start up, it isn't much faster than a machine that had 1/4 the processor and less than 4x the RAM.
What is wrong with that picture ya'll? lol

 

StudioT

I'm sorry, it doesn't hold water. Once again, not an average user. Also, whats this with dll conflicts? Dll hell pretty much ended with Windows 98.

Commercially...irrelevant. Commercial OSes log onto domains, have all sorts of permissions, extra business software not included by MS, etc. Those are hardly tweaked.

 

Correction. Because of all of the extra crap HP included that loads. Dont blame the OS for HP loading a bunch of garbage on their machines. The thing that is wrong with this picture is garbage software put on by the OEMs. Of course, that isn't at all what I am speaking of.

 

Okay, Adrynalyne, I started a new thread... what is the problem then? Considering when I look at the running processes they almost all say Microsoft... or is that a case of HP putting it on there that way?

I didn't come here looking for a fight... just help. I have commented on what has been my experience... for a novice user it is going to look like XP is a dog when it doesn't run much faster than a Win98SE, but the hardware is MUCH better.

**Grabs pencil... eyes it suspiciously... rereads Adrynalyne's sig... takes deep breath... jabs self**

 

I replied. I know you arent looking for a fight, and I understand your plight, completely.

 

It's really interesting how everyone has their favourite OS. I use W98SE as my preference but I do have a laptop with XP and a desktop with XP too. But because I've used, and know W98SE, for logner it's my preference. But there again I used to prefer DOS 5.5 over Windows 3.1 and going back even further I like CP/M over MS-DOS 1.0.

Just go with whatever you feel is best for you and upgrade when you feel the need.

 

Does there exist in W98, the need to strip out anything.. before installing 98se..?

In other words.. when you upgrade, is there anything that need be done, to avoid various common 1998 to 2k glitches..?

In other words.. does any "shit" stick to the walls..?

__________


In topic "security against e-viruses".. my PC hasn't been hit since I began "religiously" opening suspect emails in the old iMac, and boycotting T-X, and hacker sites.. and since Yahoo-mail applied a virus warning for buggy attachments...

I had to dump Norton AVS, and BlackIce, after a hacker shut them both down, just before trashing the PC's OS...

I'm finding the best option for security is to load a drawer full of hd's, and maintain a strong backup policy... Then when your PC takes a hit, the fix is as easy as changing hd's, if an old backup doesn't work...

Last couple weeks I was getting one nasty buggy email per day.. opening them only in Mac.. till I put it together, and emailed the suspect's sister and host.. and suddenly the buggy emails ceased...

_________

It seems that some useful downloads out-there act like a partial virus...

Are viruses just chunks of good programs, rebuilt to cause havoc..?

Do any AVS's function like the body's anti-bodies..?

 

I find the low number of 98SE users quoted highly unlikely. I don't count industrial use, since the IT departments are going to keep the latest and greatest releases for obvious reasons, and it is impossible to count the number of home 98 users since 98 does not require registering the software as part of the install. 30% may be high, but .1% is definately on the massive low side. As with many laws, it is basically unprovable and unenforcable, since the quantity of XP computer can be known with relative certainty (and a known margin of error) and 98 can't. Two different polls yeilded 2 different percentages, but I know what I like.

I will learn XP, don't really have a choice, but 98SE will stay my first option until the CPU and related hardware forces me to change, and at this time I can find drivers for almost everything in Win98SE.

 

My boy is slowly changing his surfing habits, mostly because I'm forcing him to repair his foul ups. The flip side is I think he's happy to be able to address his boner mistakes without getting me involved, I'm not a real sympathetic person when I have to fix something he went out and collected.

Personally I haven't had much problems, I'm made most of the noob mistakes, and learned from them. Fortunately AVG free and Spyware Scanner fixed most of my gafs.

It occured to me I may have been somewhat off topic after reading the last post. I'll retire stage right and wait for other threads. While I like debating, I hang around to learn what I don't already know, which seems to get bigger every day.

 

There is a really fundamental difference.
In medical immunology the resistance is often acquired by injecting all or components of the actual virus/organism to stimulate tha defences already latent in the body.
I know of no computer antivirus that works in this way, including the 'heuristic' approach. The computer 'injection' is actually a list of actions (program) to take against the intruding software.
The nearest analogy I can think of in the medical field would be the sci-fi 'nanobot' microscopic machine injected to repair the body.


Studio T

 

I dd not say there were no similarities, only that there was one fundamental difference.

Thinking further about the matter I reckon that there are better medical examples than either mine or yours, Halo. Computer anti-virus is an agent introduced into the computer which 'attacks' unfriendly invading software. The proper prescription includes regular doses (updates). Penicillin is an agent introduced into the body which attacks invading organisms....... However I do not sprinkle penicillin on my cornflakes, as a precaution against the lurgy. So a better example would be the malarial prophylaxis drugs, such as I took when in the tropics. These are known for addling the brain also, perhaps they did for mine?

Oh and by the way, Monster and Co I have found Windows 2000 easily the most stable OS thus far. So have at it. The Geeks will be happy to provide support and backup.

Studio T

 

A strong body doesn't need the antiseptic corn flakes... so it would seem that a strong OS wouldn't catch bugs...
Maybe to deal out bugs, is required to strengthen the body of the OS.. or some critical modifications in how OS segments communicate with each other... Instead of cures and preventions, needed is to do what the cherry tree did to me...

...When I was 14, I spotted a ripe cherry tree by the river... And I just loved cooking cherries...
I climbed all over in that tree's branches, munching cherries... till I couldn't find a single cherry... I walked all around the tree, looking for anymore red.. then a wicked sharp stinging jab come from in my stomach, buckling me over... I barely made it to a huge boulder, and sat there for five hours, holding my stomach, and feeling strange skiddly sensations crawling just under my skin, like bugs running in my veins... I sat on that rock watching the whole sunset... mumbling "I can't believe I ate the whole tree"...

A week later, I accidentally cut my arm, and was too busy to care for the tiny wound... I just let the mess dry... Next day when I washed the long dribble of blood off my arm, where the blood trickled down my arm was all scab... The blood ate right through all the layers of skin, in an effort to get back home...
I'm supposing that something in the cherries changed the properties of my blood... as in made it stronger... and/or gave or boosted its survival instinct... Maybe there was some cyanide in the cherries..? If that's the case, then I've stumbled upon a possible medical use for cyanide..?


Me thinks some software is needed which strips incoming bugs of a key facet of its composition, rather than just blocking bad shapes... like if a medi-bug has its iron-particle removed... It would then be rolling blind...
And add to that, a new directive.. say.. "to the dump"...

_____________________


Yay W2k... Now all I need is to find a cheapy W2k CD...

So have you got an authored sequence for W2k, detailing the pitfalls and cures.. on the stuff in 2k, which 98se doesn't do..?

 

This thing may seem "off-topic".. but essentially it has grown a secondary topic, and maybe a third... but still addresses the premier topic, as it evolves it from 98 to 2k... So let's play it that way to make it all productive...
It may be too much for some... "shid happens"...

...So if cyanide made the blood stronger.. that might be a trail to a cure to bola.. if the cyanide reaction were inversed...

Can an electronic antivirus be inversed, to act as an immunizing factor..?

 

Halo is more medically expert than I. The beauty of Win2k is that it was designed to be used. It is not perfect but it doesn't have all the pretty effects they added for XP and doesn't have product activation. However many of the XP tools can be added, e.g msconfig which doesn't come with 2k.
You can't update Internet Explorer beyond 6.1 though, so for tabbed browsers (if that turns you on) you have to use firefox etc.


Studio T