Save XP Petition.

Making a new "better" OS is one thing, but forcing it on the customer base is another.

Great article on the subject here.
The petition.

Discuss.

 

i have vista and i honestly dont have any problems with it at all.

i dont find it slow or a resource pig at all like other users of it seem to.

ok! not every piece of software is compatible with it yet but that to me is not enough to put me off using it.

but saying that i think you should always have choice.

if you dont want it you shouldn't have to buy it IMO.

 

There are obvious similarities between the arrival of XP and the 98 diehards who weren't going to change - but obviously did in the end.

Anyone still actually using 98, that doesn't have to because it's all their PC can take? Only those bordering on criminally insane anyway

It's not quite the same with Vista though, there are no obvious benefits to the average user apart from 'eye candy' and DirectX 10, which is not really a huge plus anyway, judging by the lack of DX 10 games - or should I say DX 10 only games.

Compatibility is not a problem in my experience, I can only remember being forced to abandon Nero 6 myself and my antique Deskjet 720c was picked up automatically.

Vista does have quite a few annoyances, and the biggest joke is the different versions available. Microsoft are clearly playing on peoples vanity, but if you can live without the doubtful benefits of aero desktop graphics - the home basic edition will suffice for most people

 

Careful there, some of us still like Win98SE.

I don't have a real opinion about Vista, since I've never used it.

The fact it can't use XP drivers for certain hardware like printers and whatnot is a real turnoff though. I don't buy a computer (or make one) for an OS, the OS has to fit my computer, and I have a lot of old hardware. XP and Win98 will use it, Vista won't.

Just finished a dual core AMD X64 6Gig, and its running XP Pro 64. It's hardware could handle Vista, but why would I want something that won't handle my scanner and several printers? Given time I'll move on, but I skipped Win 2000, and I suspect that in the end I'll skip Vista for the next OS. I could care less about eye candy, I like writing the occasional program, browsing the net, photography, and word processing (oh yeah, I'd have to buy a new package there too). I'm a power user, just not the same way MS likes to think people need to be.

There is an old engineering saying, Good enough is the enemy of the best. Until Vista can do something I want that XP can't then there is no point. It is the basic reason I'm using XP now, I wanted huge hard drives, and 98SE maxes out at 137Gig. Come up with a HAL2000 type AI and I'll be willing to camp out in a line for several days to buy a copy of Vista and whatever hardware I needed.

Again, I'm not badmouthing Vista, I'm just saying I don't feel the need.

 

No more a joke than it was for XP.


Windows XP Tablet PC Edition
Windows XP Home Edition
Windows XP Media Center Edition
Windows XP Professional

Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business
Windows Vista Ultimate

I use Vista. I've made it my own and made it work for me than whine about it. You know what? I am happier for it. Increased security should be just as big a reason to upgrade as DX 10. Which, I might add, DX 10.1 comes out with SP1 Let us not forget, the no reason to upgrade argument was made time and again with Windows 2000 vs. XP.

No I am not back to stay, just popping in for a post and saying hi

 

i am no tech so this is a personal view? i have only seen Vista and never used it so i only know what i read here.

i like XP and it took me a long time to get to grips with it so i would be happy to keep it for a whilehttp://bestsmileys.com/clueless/1.gif

 

XP til I die, I'm XP til I die, I know I am, I said I am, I'm XP til I die!

 

I don't like vista, but I can see how some would. Im not trying to say XP is a better OS then vista even though I prefer XP. My point is that M$ shouldn't force vista on windows users, more so when vista isn't selling well.

 

Not selling well, vs. what?



What comes on most every new computer? Don't let the computer geeks on the intarweb blind you to the reality of what the masses buy: OEM, and it comes with Vista, usually.

Vista isnt any more forced on people than other OSes.

For example, I could argue that Apple is forcing Leopard on people.

 

That is exactly right.

You buy an Apple you have to get Leopard. No matter what. Kind of flies in the face of the argument doesn't it.

 

Well, I'm liking Vista just fine now that I have tweaked somewhat how I want it. I say "somewhat", because like all true tweakers, there's always something I want tweak/adjust.

Sure, I had a bit of a learning curve when I first used it, but no more than I had with XP, '98, 95, etc.

As for people 'forcing' others to use an O.S, I'm not aware anyone is actually forced to use anything. It's down to same old personal choice/preferences thing again.

 

I am in no hurry to upgrade, XP works for my needs. That said, I managed to pick up Vista Home Premium upgrade from BestBuy (it is retailing for $99 right now) for $50, after a coupon and a gift card left over from Christmas. I'll probably install it this weekend on one of my PCs and develop my own opinion from first hand experience.

 

I didn't like XP (was forced to get it on my laptop, but am still running 2kPro on my desktop) because of all the stupid crap they insisted was "helpful" and "user friendly". Vista is even worse IMO, and has royally screwed over my office because we cannot share documents between the one new machine and the older ones without putting Vista on all of them.

However...I don't believe I can with good conscience sign anything to preserve XP either. I've come to a grudging working relationship with it, but it's still a crappy OS.

 

There is only so much money that MS will throw into keeping XP up to date, it's just not worth it like for any company to keep supporting older products. As much as I like XP, I too am moving on to Vista with my next build. I mean if there was no innovation and adoption of new technologies, we'd still be using candles for illumination and an outhouse in the back! Mind you, if I were a business that relied on '98 for my daily affairs, I'd be skittish of moving on but sooner or later, I'd have to take the plunge.

 

Does the Office 2007 compatibility pack not help?
I'm worried about this too, with the batch of Office 2K7 license we just got in.

 

I'm on my third "new" PC since I started with Win98SE and you have the option of buying a PC without an OS installed and then you can stay with whatever OS you like. I've always tended to skip one or two OS upgrades as most of the time the benefits are fairly minimal. So I went from DOS 1.1 to DOS 3.1, then DOS 5 before going straight to Windows 95 and then to 98SE. I do have XP on my main PC but it dual boots and I generally use 98SE because I happen to know it fairly well and therefore, as with a lot of people, I stick with what I like.

When it gets to the stage where I can't do want I want to do on the PC without upgrading then I will almost certainly go to what ever the latest OS is at the time. But at the moment I don't need to so I'm going to keep my cash in my pocket rather than feather Bill's nest.

 

Therein lies the problem. The compatability pack only helps if you're going from XP to Vista. Our server runs XP, our one new machine runs Vista. You can't go backward, to the best of my knowledge. I am NOT the IT person, so I could be wrong. But he'd have discovered a way to make it happen if he could by now.

 

I wish MS would stick with one OS long enough to make it great instead of starting fresh every few years and spending the whole life of the OS tryna get it working.

It'll be same story again this time by the time Vista service pack 3 is in the works the brand spanking new windows will be released with all its problems and everyone will be like "damn vista was just getting great"

 

Out of curiousity, how fast after the releases of XP/2K did M$ stop supporting 98?

Personally, 98 & I never got along ... I could crash it just by thinking about it, but I loved 2K. I didn't upgrade to XP until I had a job that had it on the systems. I'm running Vista just to learn it & I don't have any real complaints yet ... other than the irritation of always telling it YES, I DID mean to do that!

I think that the problem (& a possible reason for signing the petition) is the fact that they are EOL'ing XP so quickly ... simply to force businesses to upgrade.

When they released Server 2003, they realized that many many people were still on NT4.0 & had skipped an entire "generation" of OS's ... I think that this is simply an attempt to have people upgrade EVERY generation, not every other.

So -- nutshell ... I know that they have to EOL eventually, but is June 30 too soon to EOL XP (especially since it was around for so long)?

 

No, its more like that some people just complain for stupid reasons.

EOL so quickly? Heck, XP has enjoyed quite an impressive lifespan, surpassing even the totally crappy Windows NT!

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1695/captureaj3.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1038/capture3hg0.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8672/capturejc7.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1064/captureme8.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4781/capture2cz7.jpg

Note that this is end of mainstream support( the free incidents you get with a retail copy). OS availability to buy ends before mainstream support does.

 

Hey, I still use 98. It's on my internet computer. One of the great things is that they've long since stopped writing new viruses for it. I can shrug off all the new virus warnings any more.

 

I still use it too, off and on. I've got it installed as a virtual PC on my main computer, so I can run a few really old games - that, and sometimes it's just fun to poke around at it again.

I've not used Vista, but my son has a new laptop with it, and between the two of us he is starting to get used to it, and actually likes it. After we shut off some of the bells and whistles he didn't like, and went with the more classic windows menus look, he started to warm up to it (as did I). I think he really needs more then 2gigs of ram (but then, I always think more ram is better . . . ). All in all, the security pop-ups ARE aggravating, but like anything else you eventually get used to them.

 

Microsoft Responds to 'Save XP' Petition

 

Consider the site you just linked. Credibility is not something they have.

Any credible links? Otherwise, I am not buying it.

Although the irony of this is all, is nobody is being forced into upgrading to Vista LOL.

 

I used to work for a company that used Windows 95, even when Windows 2000 was out. You couldnt even buy Windows 95 any more. When they bought new computers, 95 went on it.

What do businesses do when they get a new computer(s) for their arsenal? Wipe it and put their own image on it. Thats why these arguments make less and less sense. Its not like XP stops working after the cutoff date, and paid support still has many years left. Microsoft even said once they retired XP activation, that they would provide something to permanently remove activation from it. How many businesses continued to use Windows NT, even when 2K came out. Answer? A TON. Then NT mainstream support died, along with availability, two years after 2000 was released. Was that too soon, even then? I know even after NT was retired, many businesses continued to use it. So, isnt that how it works? Businesses generally stay an OS generation behind?

MS is trying to retire XP 2 YEARS after Vista was released. Business as usual, eh? I suspect as we draw closer to Windows 7, we will see, OMG, a lot bf businesses running Vista.

No, thats not spinning. Thats playing for a reporter. Almost nothing was said right there. Which makes a company look better, saying "no comment" or giving a comment that neither confirms or denies them extending XP further?

Microsoft knows about petitions. They know that results can and are, cheated. 961 proclaimed IT workers.

How many people using Windows, just nationwide? Now take the percentage of the people who signed the petition. Probably doesnt even = 1 percent.

In close, my thoughts are this.

If you are a business, you shouldnt upgrade yet until IT has determined that it will not cause problems. If you do upgrade, and IT didnt test it first, then your IT department are idiots, NOT MS. This has been the way of the computing world for years.
If you are a consumer, then upgrade as you need to. System builders can find XP, they always find older OSes, because there is always a surplus to be found for puchase for a while, even after the product has retired. For new consumers buying OEM, its business as usual. Order the computer without an OS, and put your own on, IF you can find drivers. Thats not MS'es fault. Thats also not representative of a population who thinks XP should stick around. Apparently, even OEMs disagree about that, when they stop making XP drivers. Otherwise, its business as usual. Try barging into an Apple store, and say, I DEMAND I GET TIGER ON MY NEW IMAC!

Watch them laugh their butts off. Expect the same for any other OEM who doesn't currently give you a choice. This is how it works folks. If you don't like it, boycott MS, even boycott Apple for the same practice.

Use Linux. Stay true to your convictions, and don't be a hypocrite by bashing MS to the ends of the earth, and saying how horrible they are, how crappy their OSes are, then use Windows on your machine!

Linux is out there waiting for you, beckoning you with open arms. Go for it. I insist.

 

I love it when mods arg... discuss the issues.

 

They are if they want to play halo or DX10 games. Halo and DX10 both under the full control of Microsoft. As for more links.

http://www.osnews.com/story/19296
http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1294412345;pp;1;fp;16;fpid;1
http://www.itworld.com/Comp/2218/microsoft-responds-to-save-xp-petition-080207/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/95167
http://www.msfn.org/comments.php?shownews=21866
http://www.pcworld.in/india/news/Windows/Microsoft_Responds_to_Save_XP_Petition/4128864/9
http://itworlddaily.blogspot.com/2008/02/microsoft-responds-to-save-xp-petition.html

 

I would hope every one thinks of this as I do. As a friendly debate. No flamewars and hurt feelings and what not.

 

Do you understand why?

DX 10 requires the new driver model in Windows Vista, that is NOT in Windows XP. Do you think that MS is gonna change the driver subsystem in XP just for DX10, after XP is so old? Thats a HUGE undertaking.

Or maybe, people hope that MS will write a special DX version just for them, once again requiring an overhaul of DX10?

Maybe I missed the memo, but I always thought that new tech required you to change with the times, and UPGRADE.

Or, not. Of course, those who are in the OR NOT group don't get the perks that come with new tech.

Look, I understand the concern of going Vista before SP1. But, SP1 will be out well before XP is yanked from the shelves.

Thanks for the links, by the way. However, it doesn't change a bit of what I said. OEM makes the majority of Windows users, and its still stopping June 30th.

 

In fear of shooting my self in the foot. I have been running XP pro bone stock other then SP2 for years with out a single problem. I could care less if they stop releasing security patches for XP its self. What pisses me off to no end is when they make games that "only" work on vista, like halo 2. My roomate and I tested halo 2 in XP and vista on the exact same hardware. It was 25 to 30FPS faster in an OS it wasn't able to run on :boxing.

Lets look at DX10.

Good stuff for an os? Maybe, but it doesn't say a thing about shader model 4 not working in XP.
There is nothing to stop pixel shader 4 from working in XP other then the DX10 API. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Level_Shader_Language


On one hand you have a game that should only run in vista running faster in an OS it doesn't support (XP) with no difference in image quality what so ever.

On the other you have common users modding DX10 games to run in DX10 mode in XP. Links http://kotaku.com/gaming/crysis/crysis-dx10-stuff-so-works-in-xp-316543.php
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2209704,00.asp


I have personify verified crysis running in DX10 mode in XP and in vista. Side by side with the game running on two systems there was no difference in image quality or speed. You add that up with halo 2 running faster in XP then in vista on the exact same hardware and you cant help but suspect microsofts motivations.

 

I have a dream.


A dream that one day, just maybe one day, people will stop blaming Microsoft for others that make shoddy drivers that underperform.


It will never happen though.

 

What do drivers have to do with DX10 working or not in XP? Or halo 2 working in XP better then it does in vista when it isn't supposed to run on any thing but vista?

 

Are you serious?



Its not even a DX 10 game.

Or at least, if it is, not exclusively, being that it calls for a DX9 card.

Getting it to work better on XP onnly shows the still immature state of Vista drivers.

 

Halo 2 working 'only' on Vista is an example of M$ trying to force it down our throats. Particularly when you remember that it was originally designed to work on the XboX 360 which has been confirmed as running a modified version of XP.

 

Halo 1
Requirements: Operating System: Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows Second Edition, Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (Me), Microsoft Windows 2000, or Microsoft Windows XP.

They even made a MAC version of halo 1 !!

System Requirements:
Minimum: Macintosh computer with 800MHz G4/G5 or faster processor, Mac OS X v10.2.8 or higher, 256MB RAM, 32MB AGP Video Card (GeForce 2MX/ATI 7500 or better), 1.4GB hard disk space. Internet or LAN connection required for online play.

Then when it becomes popular they make halo 2, but wait it can ONLY run on vista
If thats not :crap i don't know what is.

 

How about COD4 won't run on old hardware. Wow, the game developers are forcing new hardware down our throats if we want to play. How about console specific games?

Same thing.

Microsoft is a business, not a charity.

What difference does it make what the 360 runs, when early dev units were Macs!!!

Modified versions don't mean anything. XP is modified 2000, 2003 is modified XP, Vista is modified 2003.

 

Wow...you guys truly are brainwashed.

Halo was PORTED. Not by Microsoft. Sorry to disappoint. rolleyes

 

System Requirements for Halo 2:

OS: Windows Vista
Processor: 2 Ghz Pentium 4 class processor (or x64)
RAM: 1 GB
Hard Drive: 7 GB
Video Card: DX9 graphics card: WDDM driver, PS 2.0/32BPP, At least nVidia 6000 or ATI x700 or above
Online Multi-player: Internet connection for Games for Windows – LIVE
Drive: DVD-ROM drive

Conclusion: If you have a good DX9 card in XP (which I have), it will have drivers that work well enough to run Halo 2. In Vista, the drivers are unstable, because Microsoft didn't release the vital parts of their operating system to any third party, until the OS was actually released to the market, so third parties that make the drivers didn't know what they were working with.

EDIT:
Oh, and Halo 2 was originally made for the Xbox 360. It's a console game that was ported to the PC to reach a larger market, and it was ported just in time for the release of Halo 3 to the 360. If we're arguing gaming, let's get the facts right.

 

Welcome to business 101. Do what you can to get people to buy your products. Once again, this isn't charity work. You compromise or cave. Microsoft is a business!

 

When did this become about hardware? That being said COD4 runs on XP, vista, and OSX officially.

 

When did it become about Xboxes or Macs?

You two mentioned em first.

 

I was just trying to point out that neither Halo game was originally made for either XP or Vista. They were made for an Xbox and an Xbox 360 respectively. If you're going to use games as an example, go ahead, but use some that actually were specifically made for computers. :innocent

I'm a bit... detail-obsessed when it comes to gaming.

 

A link ! With that I have to get going. Second time this thread has made me late. rolleyes

 

Nono, Mims. i was referring to triaxx2 and ace.

 

At any rate, I am done. I need to get back to my studies, and the point has been proven that people will bash Microsoft whenever they can. Planned AND forced obsolescence has been a motto in the computer world for quite some time, but because MS does it, they are the devil. How many times do we find our hardware rendered obsolete when a new CPU socket is released?

XP is old, much older than the typical MS lifecycle. The mistake was MS to wait so long, now they have these squatters because they fear new. In addition, we have retarded hardware manufacturers releasing still crappy drivers. So many of these arguments were made when XP replaced 9x. OMG games run slower due to lack of direct hardware access! That was a huge argument. Now look at us. Defending XP against something newer.

So, to each their own. You guys have some good points, but its nothing new.

I say, be real. Boycott Microsoft and run Linux. That you still run XP still supports your enemy. Otherwise, keep supporting your enemy, and empowering them to continue doing wrong(in your eyes).

Sorry, but a DOJ article is just an attempt to derail, Ace.

 

The Dark Side is calling! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/sw022.gif

Honestly, I don't understand the attitudes of Vista Haters/XP Lover. I loved XP.
I listened to all the Vista naysayers. I bought a System with Vista on it and decided to see for myself what it had to offer. (I still had an XP disc)
I spent days learning most of the ends and outs of Vista, with really not much trouble. I found some of my favorite apps didn't work with Vista, and went on a search, coming up with better apps.
I have had Vista for about 5 months now and would not think of switching back.
My wife still has XP on her system. I find it difficult to work with now. It seems buggy and unstable compared to Vista on my machine.

(Is there a petition to kill XP?) LOL

 

Not going to happen.

Vista is the way forward, so you might as well get used to it.

Everyone moaned about XP when that was released and preferred 98, but everyone loves XP now.

Vista is a great O/S providing you have the right hardware. Your forgetting that it is made for future hardware.

Regards Jason

 

Oh. Ops. And here I was so happy that I got to be the center of attention for once!