Separation Of Powers

Still, I am correct.

Still, I am correct.

North Korea is not a part of the NPT.

 

Are you talking about the family of US Presidencies that have carried out policies leading to the deaths of more civilians - all over the world in the last 70 years than any other state?
The family of Presidencies that have armed and funded literally dozens of brutal dictatorships on several continents over many decades, regimes that make NK look meek? Is that the continuing array of US Presidencies that have sat silent (and actually supported) a Fascist regime in Israel that has ignored every single UN vote on its illegal occupation (and - with US help - secured Nuclear weapons), and illegal settlement of over half a million residents, and murders and tortures - on a daily basis of 10s of 1000s of innocent Palestinian civilians for over 50 years? The same Presidencies that kept the torturer and murderer Mubarak in power in Egypt for 50 years and now happily supports the coup leader Sisi?
The continuing array of Presidencies that arm and support the most murderous and torturous regime in the Middle East in the form of the cess pit called Saudi Arabia, the one whose 19 citizens bombed the Twin Towers and put to death 3000 people, the very Saudi Arabia whose rich citizens are the biggest single funders of Islamic Fundamentalism and its murderers?
I doubt you were Fred but unfortunately for the many blind Americans, it's factual truth.
Neither NK nor Kim Jung Un could ever come close to that record even if they tried, which actually they don't want to try.

 

Hey Fred, thanks for joining in…

True, historically, victims believed killed by Kim Jong-un, his father and grandfather have been repeatedly reported as alerts of how this regime is run to maintain and remain nationalistic isolationists with full power over their nation. That’s Kim Jong-un’s makeup.

To negotiate peace would require hurting Kim Jong-un economically and financially with sanctions and communicating with dialogue rather than a militant response.

China and South Korea being NK’s most important trading partners, with China as its most important ally, biggest trading partner, and main source of food and energy, helping to sustain Kim Jong-un’s regime[1], then it’s in these areas harsh sanctions are needed.

Harsher sanctions are the aim brought out by the latest UNSC emergency meeting and main topic presented by those countries who attended.


[1] https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-north-korea-relationship

 

Fred, respectfully and as a personal observation, Trump’s personal style in his position as POTUS, with his inflammatory rhetoric Tweets and talks, acknowledged by Kim Jong-un, has only fueled an already tense situation with NK, pushing it forward to our current situation and the recently held UNSC emergency meeting.

With the threat of war (e.g. when Kim Jong-un was threatening Quam), own Prime Minister Turnbull stated:

"If there's an attack on the US, the ANZUS[1] Treaty would be invoked and Australia would come to the aid of the United States..."

Australia as an ally is involved and has now been put into a situation where our “…government has fired back at North Korea after Pyongyang took a swipe at Australia for taking part in war games between the US and South Korea”.[2]

Diplomacy isn’t in Trump’s vocabulary when it comes to dealing and communicating with country leaders (which I also observed in the manner he has communicated with and treated our Prime Minister on a couple of occasions).


[1] Australian New Zealand United States Treaty
[2] Threat to Australia is North Korean 'bluster':
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-...korea-threatens-australia-over-war-games.html

 

If you’re referring to a militant response as “a powerful deterrent”, with respect, I disagree a warlike response is a solution, nor is it what the international community of countries want. “The Security Council has held its second emergency meeting about North Korea in a week, discussing how to convince the Asian nation to abandon its nuclear regime…”[1]

Hopefully, I have misread your Post.

[1] Security Council meets on North Korea: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/09/05/enough-enough-security-council-meets-north-korea

 

Ditto!

 

Trump may think he is an isolationist, but that doesn’t make America one.

Trump really doesn’t understand how interconnected America is with its allies.

For example, with my country, Australia, we have in place not only Treaties, but also agreements in trade and many other different areas.[1]

So what Trump says (Tweets) isn’t necessarily true. Stating such ties are being cut doesn't occur by just Tweeting about it. Trump really doesn't understand countries' political policies/treaties/agreements, their complexities and how what one country or America does/changes will have repercussions with whatever countries have existing Treaties and Agreements in place.


[1] AUSMIN 2017 Fact Sheet on the U.S. – Australia Relationship: https://au.usembassy.gov/ausmin-2017-fact-sheet-u-s-australia-relationship/

 

While this Dutch YT video about Trump is somewhat old it still is funny and exactly to the point.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...orea-crisis/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.c6569163aff6
Daniel W. Drezner is a professor of international politics at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University wrote this back in late February:

Tell me this is wrong.

The only thing I take issue with is #7. Sanctions do not work. Diplomacy does not work. Threats don't work. Contain him in his borders and leave him alone.

 

I think that the video describes Trump to a T. Many other countries all over the world followed suit and participated on YT with their videos as well with their version of Trump, but to tell you the truth, the Dutch one was/is the most popular. It was said that over 50 million watched it, spread out on YT.

 

This whole world is crazy lol.

 

True, they are not in it, because they kept on violating it.

Will comment more when I have some time. Interesting conversation.

 

Ah yes, but then that would be an expert opinion!

 

Oma, that is an excellent satire. It truly portrays Trump.

Since he likes to brag how he far exceeds everything/anything in comparison to other US Presidents, here is something he can truly claim at breaking records, not achieved by other US Presidents:

“President Donald Trump's first 100 days in office garnered jokes from late-night comedians at a record-breaking pace, a new study reveals.

Trump was the butt of 1,060 zingers on late-night TV during his first several months in office, higher than any of his prior three processors drew within their entire first years in the White House. Former Presidents Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton all failed to eclipse the 1,000-joke mark at the end of their first years, coming in at 936, 546 and 440 quips each, respectively.

…Donald Trump is head and shoulders above the competition as the politician late night comedians most love to hate…Trump far outpaced other politicians too, almost tripling the combined jest totals of all Republican and Democratic elected officials outside of his administration…”[1]

For me, this is a sad fact for someone in the position of POTUS.


[1] "Jokes on him: Study shows Trump subject of most late night quips in early presidency:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/04/trump-late-night-jokes-study-238012

 

Re: Item 7.
"conservative analyses of the situation on the Korean Peninsula conclude that the United States does not have a lot of great policy alternatives except to tighten sanctions a wee bit more, accelerate the deployment of missile defenses on the peninsula, and pledge support to regional allies…"

Historically, sanctions made no difference with Kim Jong-un.

However, now with a diplomatic dialogue approach combined with harsher sanctions placed by UNSC, backed by its country members, this just may work if it can impact Kim Jong-un's dependencies sufficiently to bring him to the talks table rather than taking an apocalyptic action.

And while the thought of containing him “in his borders and leave him alone” sounds idyllic, realistically we know that won’t happen. So, we must stand, look for and act upon Kim Jong-un “Achilles’ heel” to the right effect, while avoiding WWIII.

 

Australia being in the Asian-Pacific region, my concern from the beginning has been Australia’s proximity to North Korean missiles and/or fall up outcome. This source maps out the countries:

“North Korea News LIVE: Here's a look at the countries that would be in range of North Korean missiles”:
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/wo...n-range-of-north-korean-missiles-2377843.html

And while there’s been a lot of talks on how to manage the situation, this study of coercive diplomacy as a strategy given the current situation, personally, makes a lot of sense:

“Cold War lessons in coercive diplomacy for dealing with North Korea today” by the Stanford Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies (FSI) - Stanford’s premier research institute for international affairs:
https://medium.com/freeman-spogli-i...or-dealing-with-north-korea-today-5a729f719ce

 

Seriously? What will make it work this time?

 

II'm not saying anything different. I am still against a militant response. I am still going with diplomatic dialogue...that Stanford study proposes coercive diplomacy as a strategy which upon reading it I found made sense:

https://medium.com/freeman-spogli-i...or-dealing-with-north-korea-today-5a729f719ce

 

"The only winning move is not to play."

~ WarGames

 

Totally agree...but we're too far down the road now and I am sick to my stomach with all the latest news when our Prime Minister Turnbull is advising Australians to get ready to evacuate from Asian territories:

North Korea: Malcolm Turnbull tells Australians to be ready to evacuate
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...t/news-story/7adea284e991b38d9ab1ef5f29ffaf84
3 hours ago - Trump says military action against North Korea not 'first choice' ... a UN Security Council emergency meeting over North Korea's latest nuclear ...

 

One can only hope that this would be enough to stop Kim Jong-un from further militant actions and instead look at what damage he is doing to his own territory:

"Radiation fears after images from North Korea test site appear to show landslides" 9:26am Sep 7, 2017
http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/...rth-korea-test-site-appear-to-show-landslides

 

Yeah - It's scary when you hear 'NK learns from every test, even if it's a failure'. One wrong failure will solve this problem. Then the problem will be to clean up the mess left behind.

NK may be one day the worlds' next SuperFund site!

 

Yes, so true, but somehow I suspect Kim Jong-un advisors will probably sweep such information under the rug to avoid distracting him from what appears to be his quest of joining the Horsemen of Apocalypse.

Then on the other hand, this just may be a graceful way out for him...(hopefully) the urgency to look towards what needs to be done to avoid self-caused catastrophe to his own territory...

 

This possible cave-in of the test site was also noted by a Chinese official who pointed to the proximity to the border of the 2 nations where this test site exists. If a fallout could be spread by Mother Nature to the Chinese land nearby maybe this will give China reason to put a stop to these tests. I'm betting by now more countries are getting worried about the recklessness of what's been going on. Russians are already aware of what can happen in a nuclear accident and it has to be on their mind of what loss of land and length of time it can amount to before the land becomes available for use again (if ever).

Those 2 countries could wind up being a big help, even if not because of doing it for our benefit. Maybe the Chinese and Russians could give both parties a reason to stop with the bulls***.

War would have an ugly outcome.
An accident also.
This is now going to have to have an impact on those other countries' thinking.

 

Yeah, he'll play his Trump Card...

 

Had to Google to find out what you were referring to:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports...n/news-story/799b9ca27887dc1edd549e5e4ce7a4dc

Frankly, I couldn't give a damn who can influence Kim Jong-un/Trump into a peaceful solution...so long as it happens!

 

Yep...Yep...Yep...Yep...Yep...Yep...Yep...Yep...Yep...

What the hell...Ditto all of that!

 

We're not too far down the road until the shooting starts.

 

Thank you for the correction…I had badly worded my Post…what I had meant and should have posted was, “recent events appear to have put us too far down the road given these comments” then clarifying it by quoting from the link:

“…SOUTH Korea’s Prime Minister Lee Nak-yon has told a meeting of defence ministers in Seoul that it’s not the time for dialogue with North Korea.

It comes amid fears that North Korea may launch its next missile on Saturday, the anniversary of the hermit kingdom’s founding…”

 

Well, facts are news, opinions, well we all have those. How does one 'prove' opinion is better than facts?

 

The differences between Facts and Opinion can be argued on many different levels, in different ways, philosophically and so on.

Simplistically, the Oxford Dictionary definitions of:

Fact – "A thing that is known or proved to be true"

Opinion – "a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."

Facts that can be proven are typically sought in legal matters.

And typically, opinions in a legal matter do not hold sway unless it is an expert opinion that is sought - which may be based on knowledge, observation, about something which may or may not be based on facts.

In some instances, depending on the subject matter, an expert opinion can hold greater sway than fact(s).

 

How can NK 'violate' a treaty it is not a signatory to?
In that sense NK are no different to the USA's great friend Israel - not a signatory to the NNP Treaty and sticks its also grubby little murdering fingers at the world and had enough Nuclear warheads to wipe out half the world long, long before NK had even started developing any nuclear potential.
FACTS, Fred as you say, are very important. Please learn them carefully.

 

I see no humour in either of these.

Instead I wonder with all these nuclear tests if they haven’t been contributory factors to the “natural disasters” currently occurring…

On the Crisis With North Korea
Patrick Chappatte SEPT. 5, 2017





Patrick Chappatte is an editorial cartoonist for The New York Times.​

On Hurricane Irma
Patrick Chappatte SEPT. 8, 2017



I hope a sensible, peaceful solution is reached...soon.​

 

Sigh. As usual, divert, dodge, and Alinsky.

I have not seen news of Israel testing ICBM's and such. And honestly, what does Israel have to do with this? Are you going to toss in Sudan, or maybe Honduras next?

"Grubby little murdering fingers". Wow. Now Max, please prove the fingers are grubby. I want links and facts please.

 

I do understand the legal difference between an expert's opinion and a normal opinion. News should be facts, sadly, not so much in the last few years. And I will go out on a limb here, and state I hardly think many of the 'media' in the US would qualify as expert opinion in most courts. And honestly, I see this on both 'sides' of the media.

News should be facts, Op/Ed should be opinions of facts.

 

Correct.
This research is a few years old. I doubt they have cleaned up their acts.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbe...nated-cable-news-channel-by-far/#68f38d365f8c

 

Apologies - didn't mean to sound as though preaching from the pulpit...totally agree...unfortunately that isn't always the case.

Cheers

LS

 

Fred don't try and make out you're a fool.
Several states developed - and now have since many years - nuclear weapons in direct contravention of the NNPT and that includes India, Pakistan and ISRAEL.
As for your very poor baseless humour neither Sudan nor Honduras (the latter being subject to illegal promotion of a coup a few times by the rogue state that is the USA) have or have attempted to develop Nuclear weapons.
The FACTS about Israel's murderous 47 years since 1967 (funded and armed by YOUR tax dollars) is in the UN Assembly votes every single year (which only the USA, Israel and 3 other almost non-existent countries ever vote against) since 1967 demanding Israel withdraw its illegal occupation of Palestine and to stop building illegal settlements there, UN reports about the 10,000 PLUS Palestinian children murdered by Israeli forces in the last 15 years alone.
The brainless attitude of some people is astonishing.
Stick to FACTS and stop trying to invent artificial ones.

 

Guy, please let's keep it calm...enough strife out there, we can all discuss and put opinions/view points while respecting each others input. Come on, its been great discussions!

Peace.

Cheers
LS

 

Facts are as they are - they can't be 'calm' when they involve death and torture. I don't respect conscious liars.

 

True, when facts illustrate wrongs, no one should be quiet or calm when it comes to death and torture. Thankfully, there are non-government organisations and international instruments within the United Nations Human Rights Council against torture and other cruel, Inhuman or degrading treatment treatment of persons.

 

Speaking as a Marine, I can tell you this. Negotiations only work with reasonable people.

Kim Jong Un is not a reasonable person. He's mad as cheese. He literally believes in his mind that he could survive a nuclear war with the USA. You see, countries like China, India, Russia, all of them understand the policy of "mutually assured destruction." That means, if I launch my nukes, you will too, and we will all both be dead, with no one to enjoy the spoils of war. That specter was policy throughout the entire Cold War, and frankly, it worked.

With Kim Jong Un, again, that is not the case. We are talking about a man who killed family members as revenge for what he saw as disloyalty. His entire family believes they are the only ones that by some sort of "divine right" they can only lead North Korea effectively.

Some have brought up the "do as I say, not as I do" type policy of the USA, and I'm sure you are referring to nukes, and why is it o.k. for the USA to have nukes, as well as other countries, but not North Korea? Again, I will point out the fact that Kim Jong Un is a nutcase, and would actually USE them just to prove a point. Think about it, he launched a missile over the country of Japan. If that would have fallen out of the sky onto a populated area, what would many of you, and the world for the matter have to say? More negotiations? How has that worked for the last 25 years? It frankly hasn't.

I don't war either. No sane person does. But if he does start something with the USA, like hitting one of our allies like Japan, or Australia, you can best bet we are not going to sit idly by and not respond to that. Negotiations only work again, with people who are reasonable. So far, Kim Jong Un has shown he everything, but reasonable.

 

Sadly, that's naive rubbish. Every serious conflict has been resolved by negotiations long after those negotiations should have started: Northern Ireland, Cuba Soviet Missiles, South Africa, Iran nuclear development and the list goes on.
The people governments negotiated with in the above disputes were no more nor less 'reasonable' than the NK leadership and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise since there are no facts to base it on.
Most of the leaders of Dictatorships that the USA has funded and armed over the last 70 years were 'nut cases' by any definition.

 

You are wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...kim-jong-un-ruthless-bellicose-despot-not-mad

 

http://www.theamericanconservative....ps-to-a-saner-u-s-policy-towards-north-korea/

 

To a sane world, the things Kim Jong Un says and has done/does would come across as someone deranged.

Now under scrutiny as a central figure on the world’s stage, there have been, a number of analytical pieces on him and his volatile personality (somewhat difficult to do given his isolationist type environment which limits information).

Whether he is or isn’t insane falls back on earlier arguments of Facts and Opinions. In this instance being on the brink of war, expert analyst input, those once close enough to observe Kim Jong Un and projectionists, continue to argue this point.

Regardless, a solution to peace needs to be sought and found.

Personally, I find the article Seven Steps to a Saner U.S. Policy Towards North Korea by the writer Andrew Bacevich puts good arguments; and note what he presents in his "Seventh, strategy for the longer term":

“Deterrence won’t solve the problem posed by North Korea, but will keep that problem within manageable bounds. Making the problem go away will require progress toward the larger challenge of reconfiguring the distribution of power in East Asia. As others have noted, the one country with sufficient leverage to influence North Korean behavior is China.

In his first encounter with President Xi Jinping, Donald Trump seemed to think that Xi would happily do his bidding and bring Kim Jong-un to heel. That was never going to happen. As a self-described master at cutting deals, Trump ought to know that Xi will expect something in return.

What does Xi want? Broadly speaking, he wants recognition of the fact that China has now emerged as a global power of the first rank. That, in turn, implies hammering out the terms of a new power sharing arrangement that will provide for the stability of East Asia in the present century—a Grand Bargain, if you will. Negotiate that Grand Bargain—a task worthy of a Metternich, a Bismarck, or a John Quincy Adams—and the North Korea problem subsides into insignificance.

Unfortunately, an administration top heavy with generals, burdened with a somnolent secretary of state, and headed by a bombastic and unprincipled chief executive is almost surely incapable of recognizing either the problem or the opportunity that it faces.”