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Separation Of Powers

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by legalsuit, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. motc7

    motc7 Vice Admiral (Starfleet)

    Northern Ireland. That's a fantastic example. There, the British allowed Gerry Adams, a cold blooded murdering terrorist, to basically escape any sort of responsibility for what he did, and become involved politically. I'm sure the family members of those who were bombed, and what have you loved those negotiations.

    Then you mention Iran. That, is the most laughable negotiations that have ever taken place. Essentially the world powers, to include the USA, banked on Iran promising to not develop nuclear weapons, or a nuclear weapons program, and then has since gone on to do exactly what many predicted. That is, to completely ignore everything they agreed to.

    Let me ask you this. Let's say that Kim Jong Un launches an ICBM at Britain, and it lands right in the middle of Trafalgar Square. Will you advocate negotiations at that point?


    As for someone using The Guardian to prove that I am wrong, I just find that newspaper utterly laughable.

    BTW, I did not vote for Trump, because I know him to be a democrat at heart. But make no mistake, Kim launches a missile at Guam, I fully expect the capitol of NK to be flattened. We do not even need nukes to do that. North Koreans, all of them only understand force.
     
    DavidGP likes this.
  2. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    Regretably I must agree, if NK "draws first blood":

    Our Australian Prime Minister "...Mr Turnbull said North Korea taking military action against the US “would be a suicide note on the part of Kim Jong-un” and a “complete catastrophe”. He added the best hope to reign in Kim’s military ambitions remained economic sanctions. The PM’s fighting words come as North Korea continues to antagonise the US and its regional neighbours with a series of nuclear bomb tests and missile launches..."

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...a/news-story/266d3624e221df8b0942002c45a35ebb

    "Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and South Korean president Moon Jae-in have discussed North Korea's recent nuclear test.
    Source: AAP 12 MINS AGO
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/09/11/turnbull-moon-north-korea-talks
     
  3. MaxTurner

    MaxTurner MajorGeek

    Oh this is just politically twisted rubbish based on your compete ignorance of the 300 year old problem of the colonisation of an Island by Britain. The current parliamentary allies of the UK Government - the 'DUP' ('Democratic Unionist Party') - are all individually and collectively personally responsible for the random indiscriminate murder of Catholic civilians in the six counties of Northern Ireland in the decades before the peace agreement and for a sectarian policy that caused the crisis to endure for decades. When you are able to engage your brain rather than your gut on this issue, come back.
    Until then just go away.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  4. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    Max, let's keep this civilized.
     
    Eldon and the mekanic like this.
  5. MaxTurner

    MaxTurner MajorGeek

    Tim - let's keep to facts then which some of your fellow country folk seem incapable of doing.
     
  6. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    It's not that I don't agree with your analysis, but there is no need to make personal attacks.
     
    the mekanic likes this.
  7. MaxTurner

    MaxTurner MajorGeek

    Heat - Kitchen. People should stay away if they can't handle it.
     
  8. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    It's not about heat..... it's about poor form and being civil. If you can't be civil, the thread will be closed. Pure and simple.
     
    the mekanic likes this.
  9. MaxTurner

    MaxTurner MajorGeek

    My posts are clear, accurate and civil. You're now just trying to distract attention away from the actual facts. Good luck with that.
     
  10. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    This is not civil.
     
    wile e coyote and the mekanic like this.
  11. MaxTurner

    MaxTurner MajorGeek

    Based on facts it is very mild. I am sure motc7 is quite capable of answering for themselves. Your own agenda is clearly something different Tim.
     
  12. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    I have no agenda other than making sure members have respect for one another. However, if you want a pissing match with me......you will lose.
     
    wile e coyote and the mekanic like this.
  13. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    It wasn't a one-sided conflict. There's plenty of blood also on Unionist and British hands. The people who are not dying today love the settlement.

    If you have credible evidence to this effect that IAEA on site investigators did not uncover, you need to relay it to them immediately. Here, I'll get you started: https://www.iaea.org/contact

    Let's say that President Trump launches an ICBM at Britain, and it lands right in the middle of Trafalgar Square. Will you advocate negotiations at that point? ;) Let's try to be reasonable here.

    What news sources do you consider legitimate?

    I'm continually amazed at the ever increasing number of people who deny voting for him.
     
  14. MaxTurner

    MaxTurner MajorGeek

    TimW:
    Yes your history of abusive unsolicited PMs proves that but sadly you're dealing with a moderately intelligent person with 40+ years of community activism so I suggest you reflect on your promises. Use your 'power' in any way you wish.
     
  15. MaxTurner

    MaxTurner MajorGeek

    You are the one suggesting it was one-sided in relation to the nationalists, not me. So stop trying to fabricate 'facts' again.
    The rise of the provisional IRA was 100% related to day to day discrimination in jobs, housing and health by the Protestants of Scottish ancestry who controlled everything and their jackbooted friends in the 'Royal Ulster Constabulary' who routinely beat up people on peaceful marches, aided by their brutal quasi-military reservists in the RUC's 'B Specials'.
    You see facts help when a person makes ludicrous statements like you have.
    The real 'nut cases' in the world - Suharto, Mubarak, multiple Latin dictators and even the alleged 'mad men' in Iraq and Libya - were all armed and funded with YOUR tax dollars. Chew on that.
    I'm not a US citizen so I couldn't have voted for Trump and I would not have if I was. A decent man like Bernie Sanders would have opened a shining light on the detritus of what the USA now comprises.
     
  16. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    ??

    Bye, bye for now, Max.

    In case anyone is wondering, I asked Max to be civil and he challenged me. He will not be back until the end of Sept.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
    the mekanic likes this.
  17. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    <sigh!>
    Wouldn't it be lovely if Kim Jong-un/Trump could be similarly silenced into a peaceful accord... (somewhat reminiscent of the days when a naughty child was put in a corner to chill out).
     
  18. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    UNSC has now put forward sanctions on North Korea (though not the "strongest possible" sanctions urged last week by Nikki Haley, the US Ambassador to the United Nations:

    UN Security Council agrees to toughest-ever sanctions against North Korea SEPTEMBER 12 2017 - 8:25AM

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/un-secu...ions-against-north-korea-20170911-gyffop.html

    It appears the newly imposed sanctions main aim are to affect NK's source of income - in turn cutting back on finances, which I expect would force cut backs to their nuclear building/testing...let's hope this has a positive outcome...
     
  19. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    While America, its allies, China, Japan, Russia and the United Nations Security Council impose new, tighter sanctions to avert further NK missile “testing”, the North Koreans are in their own bubble, seemingly unaware of the outside world tensions following their leader’s latest missile launches and rhetoric(?!) – They are truly isolationists living on their own island, totally unaware of what is going on in the outside world:

    upload_2017-9-12_20-2-25.png

    North Korea threatens 'pain and suffering' ahead of UN sanctions vote Updated 1801 GMT (0201 HKT) September 11, 2017
    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/11/asia/north-korea-un-vote/index.html
     
  20. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    Don't count on it.
     
  21. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Maxturner,
    While you're not posting your utter hatred for the US & Israel, remember the irreversible damage done by your country through colonialism and it's consequent devastating effects that still reverberates throughout the world to this day.
    If only... :p
     
  22. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek


    Max, that's the backdrop for society. Homo Sapien unreasonable? The hell you say.

    In 10,000 years we have changed little. Still we kill for resources. Still we kill for land. Still, we kill to survive. It just depends on who you are and where you're born.

    The path to "peace" is difficult in the presence of distrust and hard suspicion. Something about bellum, and I don't recall the rest. Rumor has it being better armed doesn't necessarily require gunpowder. Fitness isn't just mental.

    Is it true they had old Soviet design nozzles/engines their missile?
     
  23. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek

    ...a rising tide lifted all boats...

    P.S. Hate is a strong word. Resources and scarcity cause conflict. If no one was willing to pay for ivory, there'd be no poachers. Just sayin'...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    legalsuit likes this.
  24. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek

    Recalling "God on the Throne" of medieval and Victorian England mentality, North Korea takes a fresh look at the concept. People weep when their "leader" dies, which is just actually the portrait of a despot truly epitomizing "only the strong shall survive" upon his people. The Vice Guide to North Korea was pretty interesting...
     
  25. JonahWales

    JonahWales Private First Class

    lots to read here-id say nato wars on Serbia 1999 were war crimes and on Libya 2011

    and now in syria?what a bunch of crap-trump doing this or Pentagon?
     
  26. JonahWales

    JonahWales Private First Class

    the west wiped out 4 million people in 25 years -isreal/ usa sell arms to dictators and deny health care to Palestinians etc

    im not a muslim but a lot of muslim hating is "hasbara"--tulsi gabbard maybe ok?
     
  27. Imandy Mann

    Imandy Mann MajorGeek

    It's always the Isrealis or the USA being dogged for all they've done. Try to work your way through this list of items listed under "How many people has the East killed". Go all the way back to the ancient and medieval periods since we weren't even thought of yet. It goes up till the 2010's. a whole slew of Countries, religions, races ect ect at each others throat, some even literally. And in the more recent times we have condemned these actions or even tried to make things better.

    I'm not fluent in the happenings through history and I'm not a political or social pundit and for most of these I don't have the time for.

    A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_cleansing_campaigns


     
    Eldon likes this.
  28. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek

    Srebrenica?

    Yours truly is "Southern Slav". Something of unity too many have forgotten. Tito was tough, survived being a POW, and managed NOT to be assassinated. Yes, he killed people. And yes, people quite fervently tried to kill him. He and his team sent those tasked with his demise packing.

    Society is only as good as it's leaders. Like a successful "free market socialist" state. The only state funeral more widely attended than Tito's was Nelson Mandela. There's a diatribe here somewhere...
     
  29. wile e coyote

    wile e coyote Sergeant Major

    I am not going to get into this.

    Thing's need to be civil.
     
  30. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

  31. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek


    One can still live in hope…but I can now understand NK's manner of thinking given how news/media is controlled totally limits their knowledge of what is happening in the outside world along with their loyalty which explains readiness and acceptance for whatever stringent limitations are imposed upon them internally or externally.


    "As Putin said of North Koreans this week: They will eat grass but will not stop their [nuclear] programme as long as they do not feel safe.'”


    I’ve repeatedly read this saying of Putin’s from many different sources and now understand the point he is making.




    Regrettably, that is a true summation…




    I’m afraid I am not familiar with this title – had to try Googling and the closest understanding I may gain is some reference to Oscar Wilde(?). So I can only surmise from your Post in reference to my quote (re NK 70th Anniversary celebrations in the streets) that you’re likening NK’s isolationist and acceptance of their leader’s position of protecting them as being a contributory factor to their attitude towards the outside world(?).




    Great slogan…leaves much food for thought.




    Ditto.



    Despite past recorded attempts, NK has continued to push forward its own plans. Now given how NK’s nuclear power has advanced, we need to look toward at how countries can avoid any one starting WWIII which we all know prove to be catastrophic.
     
  32. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    Have you considered that North Korea has indeed learned a lesson about avoiding war from the other nuclear powers, not necessarily one you've considered?
     
  33. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    Japan has just reported that NK has fired another missile that crossed Japan and landed in the ocean.
     
  34. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek

    @legalsuit:

    Thanks. A lot. Here I just thought only I was crazy!!! ;-)

    Sometimes, big "muscles" only require a pin prick to remove the hot air...


    P.S. "Divine Right of Kings"
     
    legalsuit likes this.
  35. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek


    Well, use intellect instead of the amygdala. Stretch thoughts into sentences. Turn proper disgust into brilliant dissent. Give the world what for, but recall that not everyone immediately considers the difference between "actin' a fool", and honestly being one...
     
    legalsuit likes this.
  36. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    Personally, I’ve thought NK for many years has played a cat and mouse game, pushing the envelope as what they are now doing with the most recent missile launch over Japan. They know the outside world wants to resist war with a known catastrophic consequence should there be a WWIII. In this respect, I reckon this is what they’ve learned and also reckon they’re playing that card. Dangerously.

    NK, (albeit with much undeclared facilities over the years, and in spite of any agreements/UNSC sanctions). continued to build nuclear weapons and power towards becoming a legitimate, modern state on the world’s stage. Their aim.

    Kim Jong-un hides within his isolation, totally controlling what information is put out, while limiting contact with the outside world; meanwhile, his people are continually warned external forces are constantly threatening their very existence, so they remain deaf and blind to realistic concerns outside their bubble.


    As I commented earlier – NK is pushing the envelope, playing a most dangerous game, particularly now-a-days with a different player who has a finger on the button.


    <sigh!>

    Wish that were the case in this instance…


    Okay. Gotcha. Thanks.
     
  37. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    Wise words that should be heeded by leaders of a democracy, particularly at this time:

    "... we are just temporary occupants of this office. That makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and traditions — like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties — that our forebears fought and bled for. Regardless of the push and pull of daily politics, it's up to us to leave those instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them..."[1]

    [1] Barack Obama's letter to Donald Trump: The full transcript, Posted 4 Sep 2017, 9:38am: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-04/barack-obama-letter-to-donald-trump-transcript/8868944
     
  38. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    Overlooked this comment...this should not happen here. Instead we should take pride in the fact that there is an international mix, ethnics, religions discussing (in this instance) an international concern with no denunciation or abuse towards any one person who Posts. (Something TimW promptly took care of earlier.)

    Cheers

    LS








     
  39. motc7

    motc7 Vice Admiral (Starfleet)

    Obama writing about separation of powers, is 100% laughable.

    BTW, Looks like London was bombed in the tube again. Want to run to the betting house and find out who is responsible?
     
  40. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    In my view Kim Jong-un is far from the fool many appear to assume him to be. He has learned from post-WW11 history that nuclear armed nations do not attack each other, so nothing the rest of the world can do is going to stop him from pushing on with his nuclear ambitions. However in provoking his enemies in the way he is he is gambling that the USA will always be able to restrain the 'nuke him while we can' gang and also gambling that his nuclear program doesn't get derailed by either technical failures or by accidents. I can't see that the West has much choice but to continue their efforts to isolate him internationally and, by whatever means, foster unrest in NK society. Not easy, but vital.
     
    legalsuit likes this.
  41. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

    legalsuit likes this.
  42. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    I'm surprised how few grasp this.

    The 'just nukem' crowd is restrained by the sobering prospect of war with China, who has declared they will intercede on NK's behalf if it is 'preemptively' attacked. Technical failures and accidents are not a factor, they already have working weapons. That's the hard part. Do you really think destabilizing them is a good idea? Look how well it's worked out in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. Imagine those messes with thermonuclear fusion weapons in the mix. Blowback with a side order of fallout.:eek:
     
  43. oma

    oma MajorGeek

    http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...ort-presents-secret-state-inside-north-korea/

    CNN Special Report Presents Secret State: Inside North Korea
    Exclusive one-hour special airs Friday, September 15 at 10pm ET on CNN and CNN International

    The above-mentioned special report will be repeated numerous times so check out the times in above link if above time isn't suitable for you. In addition more info is given at link.
     
    legalsuit likes this.
  44. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek

    Unfortunately, there is no sarcasm emoji...
     
  45. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    In the case of NK I do, yes. The mess in the middle east is mostly because there has been no neighbourhood superpower willing and able to step in and fill the power vacuums resulting from the 'Arab spring'. As I understand it NK is not plagued by the ancient tribal and religious hatreds of the middle east and believe that China would move quickly to restore stability in its neighbour should it need to. I can't see SK wanting to get too involved unless encouraged by China to do so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  46. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    The mess in the Middle East is the result of a superpower stepping in. It is not China's duty to fix a mess the US would create.
     
  47. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    How so? Particularly since Obama wasn’t “writing about separation of powers” as you appear to allude, but rather referring to your American Constitution – or have I misread your Post? So please explain exactly what do you mean by your comment, as I am not an American and can only refer to what I found here[1]: https://nccs.net/online-resources/o...of-powers-the-genius-of-americas-constitution

    “…the Executive, Legislative, and judicial branches were to be wholly independent of each other, yet bound together through an intricate system of checks and balances…keeping the three branches separated was fundamental to the preservation of liberty…’The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many… may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.’…

    George Washington, in his Farewell Address, reminded Americans of the need to preserve the Founders’ system…and warned…such checks and balances through the separation of powers be concluded, ‘To preserve them must be as necessary as to institute them.’”

    Hence the reason I commenced this post (see Post #1) called "Separation of Powers" as I was seeking clarification. Perhaps you may provide it?


    Again, please do explain? Is terrorism something to bet about...? Or are you trying to commute some sort of humour in the face of terror and harm occurring in this instance to the English for the 5th time this year?



    [1] Separation of Powers – the genius of America’s Constitution - https://nccs.net/online-resources/o...of-powers-the-genius-of-americas-constitution
     
  48. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    Bingo!

    As I commented earlier, “…They know the outside world wants to resist war with a known catastrophic consequence should there be a WWIII. In this respect, I reckon this is what they’ve learned and also reckon they’re playing that card. Dangerously…”
     
  49. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    Thanks for the update OMA. Should be interesting viewing looking into this hermit world of NK.


    Cheers


    LS
     
  50. legalsuit

    legalsuit MajorGeek

    True. But whatever influence they can exercise can contribute towards assisting, along with other countries’ backing up such moves by also exerting pressure economically and financially upon NK.
     

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