Setting up my system. Need suggestions/advice

This is going to get a bit long.....

I am now living in China. My son who is 14 does not understand English very well yet, so we are having a bit of a problem getting him to understand that QQ and all it's add-on crap is ruining our computer. I have just spend the past two days getting rid of Malware/spyware/Trojan Horses, etc. all brought on by Tencent/QQ programs. The funny thing is that it does not target or affect Chinese programs, only western operating systems, programs, browser, email. When he is on the computer in Windows XP, Yahoo browser(China based) the computer runs fine. When I sign on and use XP, Yahoo (English version) and email, everything turns to crap!

I want him to have access to it and to the programs he uses, but I don't want it affecting what I do. I use the computer for my work as well as managing my finances. It is kinda important that it work reliably.

The first thing right off the bat is that you are all going to tell me to get good virus/spyware/malware/firewall programs. I have them. In spades! They don't do anything in a preemptive way. It is all after the fact. after it has already screwed my day!

Here is an example of how this crap screws up my computer. My son will load a game or some QQ programs that allows him to listen to music or watch movies. Then, at some point, without any prompting, it will load the Baidu tool bar. The Baidu tool bar will have a Trojan Horse that then starts messing with my email, browser, etc. Baidu is just an example. When I cleaned out the system over the past two days, I found seven Trojan Horses, and nine other "serious threat" malware/spyware programs

One thing I have noticed is that if I use Firefox instead of IE, then the problems are minimal.

Here is the layout of my PC..

AMD Dual-core 3.2 Ghz processor
4 Gig RAM
Drive/SizeGb/Free spaceGb
C:/ 48.8/36.2
D:/ 48.8/48.3
E:/ 48.8/47.7
F:/ 166/165
G:/ 153/149

I was thinking of a dual-boot system. I know nothing about this or how to set it up with two separate copies of the same operating system working from different drive partitions. Is it possible to have (for example), MY stuff on C/D drive and to boot from there and to have HIS stuff on G drive and have him boot from G drive:? Would this isolate the crap that his programs spew to his area of the computer?

If this won't work, what will? How can I have two physical computers inside one cabinet? How can I keep hits mitts off my bits?????

Are there any other suggestions that would make sense?

No, I'm not going to kill him. I'm not buying a second computer. I'm not going to tell him he can't talk to his friends on QQ.

We need help to find a way to cohabitate on the same computer without affecting each others stuff.

Your expert help is always appreciated!

I hope that this group can come to a consensus on the best way to handle this and then we can use this thread to develop detailed instructions on exactly how to accomplish the agreed upon plan of action.

Thanks!!!!!

 

I realize you said you have anti virus protection but if it is not proactive then it is useless.

I use Avanquest system suite which gives full protection.
Firstly it is not free but is worth paying for, second it will slow down your internet surfing because it checks every thing you input and if it is not safe it will ask for confirmation of your actions, so if you can put up with that is OK.

 

OK..let me clarify..the anti-virus software (norton 360) is pro-active, but it doesn't recognize malware, TH's, and other spyware. If it's not a Nuclear Bomb trying to come through the front door, it's pretty useless...I have the anti-phishing filters turned on.

The thing about the stuff that is hidden in Tencent/QQ downloads is that it doesn't exist until the builder program is on your computer. Then it builds the stuff "on the computer" instead of importing it and taking a chance of it being recognized as "bad".

At least this is what it seems like is happening since nothing recognizes it as it is being downloaded....I don't really know...I just know that whatever floats through with Tencent/QQ programs has a 100% chance of making it onto my hard drive.

 

I have logged into QQ and so far have not seen any problems but i will let it run and see if anything develops.

 

First google hit..
http://idannyb.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/tencent-blocks-chinese-qq-spyware/

LH55US, could it be that the AV alarm is being ignored when it pops up?
QQ seems to run on Linux. Although it's in Beta stage - is that an option..
http://im.qq.com/qq/linux/

Sorry Bill. I thought I'd add my 2 cents..

 

Sikvik no problem, i don't profess to be an expert and any help is gratefully accepted.

 

Bill, thanks for loading/logging onto QQ, but you are in for a long wait if you are waiting for something to happen. QQ is a lot more than chat software. From my experiences, these problems didn't pop up until about two months after my son loaded QQ. He just kept loading more and more different programs, all produced by Tencent/QQ. Audio download websites, video download websites, online movie websites, online gaming websites. QQ has 700 advertisers. It has 5 separate product divisions. Each of these has a multitude of products/software/offerings. I know China. Money is money. Ethics have nothing to do with it. QQ is not going to stop any client from doing anything they want as long as it doesn't crash the QQ software. Anything is fair game to manipulate the prospective client to your website.

If you are waiting for something to happen, you will need to load every program they have and then use them.

How do I know that these problems came from QQ? Because EVERYTHING he has loaded on the computer has a Tencent/QQ logo. There were literally hundreds of different programs. They are all gone now, but I want to be able to let him have some of them.

That is why I want to set up the computer so he has his own secure playground and I have my own secure playground.

AV alarms ignored? Nope, I have Norton set to automatically deal with them. No alarms come up. However, the fact that they are there tells me that Norton never saw them coming.

The question is how to set up my computer with two complete separate user areas. Not how secure or safe QQ is or is not. With my kid, if its not QQ today, it will be some other program tomorrow.

 

A dual boot with linux seems a likely option. If all of QQ's addons are supported.
Cheers.

 

I have been trying some of the sites but as yet nothing has flagged.

You have a couple of options open to you to isolate your sons PC activities.
The first is Sandboxie.

http://majorgeeks.com/Sandboxie_d4993.html

Where you let your son do whatever he wants whilst in there and no harm will come to the main PC.

Second is Virtual PC.

http://majorgeeks.com/Returnil_Virtual_System_Personal_Edition_d5702.html
Or the one i use is

http://www.vmware.com/download/server/

I use it to test any programs i am not sure about (mine is using Linux but you can use other OSs. (see insert)

Edit I forgot to mention all you do is allocate a certain amount of your hard disk (20 or 30 GB) and it is isolated from the main HD

 

For what I am trying to accomplish, which would you recommend? Remember that some things I want saved as usual. For example, if I download foreign language support upgrades or my son downloads an "enhancement " to a game he uses. Perhaps downloading additional software programs. MS auto updates to Windows, Live update in Norton. What will happen to these things?

By the way, thanks for the help!

 

This is my personal favorite and you are able to save and delete just the same as your main PC.

http://www.vmware.com/download/server/

But go here first to get your free serial number.

http://register.vmware.com/content/registration.html

When you have installed VMware then just install the OS the same way you do for any PC.

 

Just posting some after thoughts.
The suggestion that Sikvik gave about dual boot is also an excellent way to separate your son and your self because it turns your PC into two PCs the only down fall is that if your son is using his PC and you want to do some work you need to re-boot to get your PC but the upside is that they are two completely separate PCs.

To do this you need to be able to partition your hard drive (depending how big it is) to give the second PC enough to install a full OS.
If you need help with either suggestion just post back and we can run you through it.

 

After reading about all three options, I went with the Returnil Virtual PC. We'll see how this works. I can uninstall and try the others as well to see which will work best for our needs.

The dual -boot seems to be a good option, too. I am interested in that. Let's see how these software solutions work. If they don't give us everything we need, we go for the dual-boot setup.

I'm not switching to Linux. If f I do a dual system, it will need to be a MS XP setup. I know nothing about Linux and I have enough to do without having to learn a new OS.

Thanks for all the help. I'll let this go on "trial" for a few weeks and see if we get back into a mess....

 

If you have any problems we will be here to help.

Good luck.

 

OK!...Well, none of the three worked. For one simple reason. I have to allow things to be saved normally. If my son adds a friend to his QQ, then he has to be able to save that. If I write a letter in Word, then I have to be able to save that. When we save, the door is wide open for anything else that wants to tag along...

Now I have a question...and a request...

Why is Firefox not affected/affected less than IE by these malicious little buggers?

And now it is time to set up a Dual Boot system with both boot options being MS XP Pro in two separate and distinct areas of the computer.

I've thought about this some and here is my needs...

I am an American, so I need my American websites, everything in English. I need my software such as Office.

My wife and son are Chinese so they need everything in Chinese. I want my wife and son to have one boot partition and I have the other.

My Windows log on screen will have one user. The Chinese Windows log on will have two users.

I will have System Admin authority on my side, my son will have System Admin authority on the Chinese side with my wife having limited authority on the Chinese side.

I want my wife and son to be able top do anything they want and it should have no affect on my side. I don't care if they can't even log because they have it so messed up with malware. I should not notice any affect whatsoever on my side.

I am aware that if they get their side all messed up, they will need to learn to fix it. Every screen will be in Chinese and I can't read Chinese, so they are on their own!

I would like C:, D:, E:, Drives

I would like the other partition, the Chinese side to have F:, G; Drives

Now, a bit about MS license agreements here in China. When you buy a computer, it is loaded with MS Windows. It may be a bootleg copy and it may be a legal copy. If it is a bootleg copy, you will be instructed to bring your computer to the store every six month for "updates".

If it is a legal copy, you can turn on "auto update" from MS and get them the easy and legal way. I have a legal copy of MS.

The difference between license agreement here and in the US is that here a "store" is considered a "multi-user" company. A store will buy a legal copy of Windows and also buy an unlimited user license. The multi-users are the stores customers, much like Ford Motor Co. buying a multi-user license and then installing on every computer in the company worldwide.

So, what this means is that I do not have discs or books. Whatever we do, we have to do it without them. If that cannot not be done, then I will have to take my computer to the store and let them set it up in dual-boot mode....I'd rather not do that. I don't trust their expertise that far and I can't talk directly to them. I will have to let my son talk to them and then he will just tell them what he wants, not what I want...and then he will blame it on translation errors and I will be stuck with a computer that is set up by a 14 y/o kid that doesn't know shit, but thinks he does.

So, if we can do this without disks, I need very explicit instructions. Accurate and detailed to the nth degree.

I was a IBM System/3, System/38 and AS/400 guy for about twenty five years, so I know what you are talking about. I just don't know Windows or PC's that well. I guess you could define me as a intermediate level user.

I won't do anything until I receive the total package of instructions and print them out. If things go wrong, I have no backup system and no way to ask more questions. This computer is our only means of communications. this is one of those times when Plan A is Plan A. Plan B is make sure Plan A works!

As always..Thanks Guys!

 

I am looking into your needs.

I am not an expert on Windows XP so if any one can help here it would be appreciated.

firstly we need to get a copy of your system that is bootable, a good free program for this is XXclone.

http://majorgeeks.com/XXCLONE_d5534.html

Also we need to know some details about your system, what hard drives you have and how big,if your copy is legal do you have a key number, under normal circumstances this is on an orange sticker on the case.
If you do not have a sticker this program will find the key for you,it is 25 numbers in blocks of 5 (*****-*****-*****-*****-*****)

http://majorgeeks.com/Magical_Jelly_Bean_Keyfinder_d2612.html

If we can get this far then we are on the way to a dual boot.

 

Ok...I have my 25 character key code. And I have downloaded XXClone. I ran it and made a clone of C: drive on F: drive.

My disk partitions are as follows:

C: 48.8G
D: 48.8G
E: 48.8G
F:166G
G:153G

We want one system to have C, D, E drives and the other system to have F, G drive.

Do I now want to run the option in XXCLone to make F: drive bootable?

Whats next? How do I set up the system at power up to let us pick which drive to boot from?

How do I isolate C,D,E drives to one system and F,G to the other?

Am I getting ahead of myself?...HAHA...Oh..I fully understand that a person that classifies themselves as an intermediate user knows exactly enough to get himself into trouble!

I'll try not to do anything too stupid and I do appreciate the help!

 

C: 48.8G
D: 48.8G
E: 48.8G
F:166G
G:153G

Before we proceed, is this one drive that has been partitioned into 5 (i hope not) or is it 2 or more physical hard drives??

 

Bill, this is one physical drive. This is the Chinese solution to high speed data access...:-D It is a Western Digital 500Gig (32MB Cache) SATA Drive

 

Ok this is where i get the difficulty because i have never done this without the CDs or two disks.
If halo reads this maybe he can help us.

Make your copy bootable first.

Then reboot your PC (if you do not see two boot options during bootup)when XP is loaded click on the start menu then select "run" in the command window type "C:boot.ini " and you should see a screen with both systems showing.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP professional" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect

This lets us know that the PC can see both systems

I will do some more research and get back.

 

That was easy enough. XXClone made the F: drive bootable. I reboot the system and saw the MS XP Pro selection and the XXCLone selection. I booted from each to make sure it works OK.

Now, how do I separate the partitions so that when booted from XP Pro on C: drive, I can only have access to C, D, E drive and when booted from F: drive, I only have access to F and G drive.

By the way, both "systems" need access to H: drive. That is the DVD/CD drive as well as all the USB drives, printers, etc.

So far this is going according to your plan! This is great!

 

Well i am really glad we got to here without problems http://bestsmileys.com/cheering/6.gif

I will have to do some research on how to limit the access when using only one hard drive.
I have sent an e-mail to a friend who is very knowledgeable with XP and hope fully he will pop in and help.

 

Just so you don't think we have abandoned you.
I am still looking for a way to allocate specific partitions to the OSs on the same drive.

 

OK...I'll checking in to see what you found! Thanks!

 

I am really sorry but i am not able to find a way to allocate specific drives to the OSs when they are installed on the same disk.
You have options

this is not free but will let you password protect any partition.

http://www.exlade.com/disk-password-protection-partition-protection

This is a free one that can hide the partitions you do not want you son to access.
I have the full pro version and it will do the job perfectly but i have never used the free version.

http://www.partition-tool.com/personal.htm



There are plenty of tools out there but they are not free.

 

Bill, I appreciate your efforts more than I can say. Thank you!!!!

After talking to the guys at the computer store here in China about this, we came to the conclusion that no matter how we did this, if we stayed with one computer, it would never be totally safe. The only way to get a truly segregated system within one box is to run two operating systems that have nothing at all in common in two separate disk drives. One of those OS needs to be a non-MS product so it can boot from any drive letter you want. MS requires a C: drive in all their products from what I can tell. Only then, can you deny access to C: drive if you need to.

So, they configured a second system for me with almost the same stuff as the original system, but they gave me a huge discount (return customer). I bought the new system without monitor, keyboard, mouse. I bought a switch that all of these plug into and we can switch them back and forth and share them. Now we have two computers for very little money (you would crap if you knew how cheap computers are here!!)

Again, thank you so much for all the help!!!

 

I am glad you have got it working to your satisfaction http://bestsmileys.com/happy/7.gif

It certainly presented a challenge but we will always try to get a solution for our members.

Good luck, Bill