slow pc

Hi all

I am new here and don't really know what I'm taking about so please go easy on me.
my pc was running xp which I need for a dos programme I use, but now I also need windows 7, so I sent my pc away to get windows 7 installed and I now run the xp on VMware.
my pc is now so slow its unbearable.
can anyone suggest what I could do to try fix this?
I know im going to get asked questions but remember I don't know what im talking about so please keep it simple.

Derek

 

Hey delboy1, do you know how much RAM you have ? Go to Start, Computer, right click on Computer and click Properties and see if it tells you how much you have.

 

I did have 4 gig but increased it to 8 to try fix my issue

 

Is it XP or Win 7 that's slow? If it's XP you will need to take a look at how much memory has been allocated to the virtual machine. Open XP and Player > Manage > Virtual Machine Settings. I run a very slim XP in a VM and it's OK on 1GB but assuming Win 7 is 64 bit you could safely double that. (Memory you allocate to the VM is not available to the host system, Win 7 in your case).

 

The simplest solution would have been to resize (partition) your hard drive when it still had XP on it. Then you could have just installed Win7 to the 2nd partition & dual booted both XP & Win7 & not bothered with VMware.

It's something you can still do if you have both XP & Win7 discs, it does however involve a few hours work & must be done in a specific order. If you are not comfortable with doing something like that then see if the others can help you with your current setup.

Just a note, I run a mix of VMware & VirtualBox on several PCs that are also all dual boot systems with only 2GB of RAM without any trouble. VMware actually runs fine with just 1GB of RAM, VirtualBox doesn't it needs 2GB.

 

Thanks guys for all your advice,
I got The ram from the guys that done the upgrade but I'm getting suspicious of them now.
They done the upgrade and when I asked them for help with my problem they suggested the ram upgrade, now that's not worked they suggest changing from a dual processer to a quad, I have told them to order the parts which they will fit.
I don't understand why the didn't just add the ram and processer in the first place.
I have another 3 computers to do the windows upgrade on which are all part of a small office network, I'm trying to get mine running good first before doing the others.

 

its both os that are slow

 

Welcome to Major Geeks!

If you are running a Windows 7 32bit version, it can only "see" 4 GB of memory. Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit can see 16gb, and other versions of 64bit Windows 7 can address up to 192GB.

It would be a great help to know more about your computer . . . is it a laptop, or a desktop? What is the make and model of the computer if it is a commercial one, or the type of motherboard and CPU if it is a custom build. Also helpful would be information on what you need to do with the computer, or more to the point, what are you doing that you feel is too slow?

I'd wait before spending any more money, especially if you distrust the people doing the work. Perhaps your problem is a software rather than a hardware issue. There are some pretty savvy folks here that may be able to help without you spending money on questionable upgrades.

 

From what you say it might be advisable not to request this outfit to do or order anything else for the time being. Fitting extra memory, providing the OS is 64 bit, is OK but fitting a new CPU is almost certainly not. At present by far the most effective upgrade is to install an SSD drive and move the operating system and software onto it. The speed gain would massively exceed that from fitting a different CPU, and SSDs are now affordable. I would be asking them why they have proposed this and not suggested SSD. Just note what they say and report it here.

As has already been said, make and model, and OS versions - including whether 32 or 64 bit - might help us to help you, as would more info on the slowness - is it just when booting up, when web browsing, or what?

 

I meant to add that you should also think about Lapetus' suggestion of a dual boot rather than a VM. Providing installation media are available this could be done on a new SSD drive, or on your existing drive of course, but VMware is pretty fast on a SSD.

 

ok im starting to get lost, I will answer what I can and then would appreciate help answering the rest.
Its a pc, its not a commercial machine it was custom built.

I think you want to know its windows 7 home premium service pack 1
AMD A4-3300 APU with radeon(tm) HD graphics 2.50GHz
8.00 GB (7.50GB usable ram)
64-bit operating system.

Then the vm part is-
Microsoft windows XP home addition version 2002 service pack 3
AMD A4=3300 APU with radeon(tm HD Graphics 2.49GHz 1.00GB of RAM.

I don't know how to tell what kind of motherboard, cpu or ssd are?

Can I just add this is the first time I have ever used a forum of any kind and I'm amazed at the response epically with a topic as complicated as computers, I really appreciate all the help.

 

I forgot to say
the computer in question is part of a small office network of 4 pc, the other 3are just operating the xp and don't have vm or windows 7 yet but the will once I get this one running properly.
The xp is to run a dos based programme that we all share, this programme is currently running on one of the xp machines and the rest just feed into it via the network.
I now need windows 7 to do other things that xp cant do so that's how this all began.
The machine is slow no matter what I'm doing I could just be in emails with the vm running in the background and my mouse keeps sticking or text cant keep up with my typing and I don't touch type I'm slow at typing.
The vm part is even slower but the only thing I do on the vm is access the dos programme which really drags, not sure if that's also to do with the host machine of the dos programme but it was fine before I got this upgrade done.

 

Thanks for the information. I can't see that the slowness is being caused by an underpowered system so imo it would be a complete waste of money installing a quad core CPU. However investigating other possible reasons for the slowness involves 'taking the cylinder head off' so to speak. It gets complex and time consuming even for those that know a bit about systems, and can be quite intimidating for novices such as yourself. However there are a few things we can ask you to try -

For starters click Start > Control Panel and at the top right set View By to Small Icons. Click on Device Manager and look closely at the icons down the left, you are looking for any icon with a yellow or orange mark on it. If they are all clean then click the arrow alongside Universal Bus Controllers to open it up and do the same check there. Let us know what you find.

 

ok done that and it was all clean I guess because I couldn't see any coloured icons

 

OK. Next Q. does it make any difference whether the XP virtual machine is running or not?

Next Q. Right click the Win 7 taskbar and open Task Manager. Click the Performance tab and look at the two graphs on the left. CPU usage should be quite low, less than 10%, though it will just peak briefly from time to time. The lower graph, Memory for a Win 7 system not running many programs would normally be less than 2GB.

Let us know.

 

The vm is always on because it holds the dos programmes which I use the most but I tried turning it off for 30 mins and just messed about on the pc and it was lighting fast, then when I put the vm back on it slowed down again.
I tried to reply to an email this morning and it took 20 seconds to type 2 letters, if I reboot the vm there is no difference but if I reboot the pc then it runs better for a couple of days then gradually just gets slower again.
when doing the task manager test I found with vm running and nothing else it was 3.03GB, 10-60% cpu usage and 40% physical memory.
with vm off it reads 1.77GB, 0-3% cpu and 23% physical memory.
is cpu the processer these guys are suggesting I replace? and what's an ssd ? because I can suggest that to them instead.

 

Your test without the VM running has proved, as I expected, that this is not a hardware issue so you don't need either a new CPU (processor) or an SSD (solid state drive) and your supplier should not have recommended it. You didn't need the 4GB extra memory either.

So the problem is either the VM itself, XP itself, or the DOS software you run on it. How is it if you open the VM but do not start XP? And what if you start XP but not your software?

 

That will be difficult to determine because I basically use the dos programme all day, if I'm at the pc then I'm most likely using dos.
After the problem I mentioned earlier replying to an email, I had to reboot the pc, which always makes it run faster for a while, so since the reboot its been running fine, which also makes it difficult to answer your question at the moment.
Unless there is anything else you can suggest I do in the mean time, I will try what you ask when it starts to slow down again which will probably be tomorrow or the day after.

 

OK, that's fine. I'm simply trying to narrow down the possible culprits without stressing you out by asking too many technical questions.

 

Hi Earthling
The pc had ran fine since we last spoke, I then left it over the weekend and when I tried to use it today (Monday) it was running very slow again, just moving the mouse across the screen is very sticky.
The only thing running is the vm, I don't know how to open that without xp running, when I click on it, it just starts up as an xp computer.
I ran the test on task manager again and now tm on the windows machine is showing 3.8G memory and 60-92% cpu usage, the only apps running are this website an the vm, in processes there using 76k for this website and 55k for the vm.
On the vm machine there's no apps running and processes is showing 71k for something called svchost.exe, performance is showing 444mb pf usage and 7-43% cpu usage, when I start my dos programme the cpu went crazy for 3 seconds but then settled back down to the stated figures.
Does any of that help ?
Thanks for your help

 

oh I think I got vm open without xp, figures now show 2.38G and 0-4% cpu usage but as soon as I start xp it slows everything down again

 

Can you have a look at post #4 and reset the VM's RAM to 2GB and restart it? As you have 8GB installed that still leaves plenty for Win 7 but it will ease any RAM bottleneck in XP, which is the most common cause of slowness.

Just thinking forward, if it is still your intention to convert all the office machines to this setup then you will of course need a separate XP licence key for each machine.

 

ok done that so I guess wait and see how it goes for a couple of days.
its a shop that's doing the upgrades so I'm sure if there's any license things then I will be getting them, it all depends on weather I cant get this one running properly, if I can then I will be looking for the other machines to be done also. do you think there is any point getting the quad processer installed anyway or wait and see how we get on?

 

Thinking forward again, if the only reason you need XP is in order to be able to run your DOS program then Win 98SE, which can be installed at no cost, and is far far lighter on resources would be a better option. But installing Win 98SE requires a floppy disk or a floppy disk image, which I'm sure you will not have. I'm currently looking into whether this is a possibility or not. In the meantime I'm quite sure that installing a quad processor will be a total waste of money.

 

morning earthling
I have increased the ram on vm to 2G and its not made any difference.
Just a thought, would any of the following also have any impact?
Its not only the 2 windows 7 with vm on them that are slow, the 2pcs that just have xp on them are also slow but only when they are using dos, where as the windows pcs are slow regardless of what they do.
the dos programme is on one xp pc and the rest access dos through the network. would increasing the ram or anything else on the main dos pc help the network run faster? im now not going to add windows 7 to the other machines because they don't need it anymore, at least until I get rid of the dos programme which I think may be by this time next year.

 

These may have been addressed already - I scanned the posts and didn't see them . . .

--Have you made sure any virtualization extensions are activated in the BIOS?

--Have you checked your windows logs, specifically the application folder, for application errors? Maybe there are programs on your system not playing nice with each other.

--Have you ruled out malware? what kind of Anti-virus and malware checkers are run on the system?

--All your system drivers up to date?

 

Hi Spad
I think the important part of the thread you did miss was I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to computers, so everything you just asked went straight over my head without even :wave as it passed. if you could explain please, I could then try address your ideas.

 

Do you have all of the Windows udpates for XP installed on the vm? svchost.exe cpu spikes are often caused by Windows udpates. This is not a new thing going way back to Windows 98 that I can remember...

There are far more powerful processors available than a standard quad core on the market today. I use an i series processor in this PC, and it's a world better than the duo cores and single core on my other PCs. Running a vm all of the time, I think the quad core is a good idea. Also, I have 8 GB on this PC. It makes a big difference too. Don't feel bad about these upgrades. The only thing is I would want to know which one they're putting in and what the benchmark is. There are a number of quad core processors all with different benchmarks. If you haven't ever, I would look into processor benchmarks at a site like Passmark.com. They have all of the processors listed and how they compare to each other. It's important to know this information if you are going to upgrade a processor.

Running a vm sucks down resources. As long as you are running it at all times, you will need the extra resources. Honestly, I think Earthling is taking you too close to a fine line of usability to say that it's a waste of money to upgrade the processor. A quad core processor could give you 50% or even 100% better performance from the processor. That would help, since your PC will be sharing resources between the vm and your W7 installation.

I have another PC with a motherboard that supports quad core. It has an old dual core processor, so I will be upgrading that PC, guaranteed. I mean, look at the new machines. Super fast i series processors and 8 or 16 GB of RAM standard. That's all you need to know. PCs will become more and more resource hungry, and it's good to stay ahead of the game or at least try to keep up with the game. A quad core is not even the latest. I actually would say it's pretty much the bare minimum moving forward to be guaranteed any performance from a PC.

All respect Earthling...I just disagree with you this time. For something as important as a business machine where errors cost $$$, I go with the upgrade myself. Personally, I would do it myself and save a bundle of cash. Otherwise, I guess it depends on how much they want for the upgrade for me to say uncategorically it's the best move for the money, since I don't know how much it's costing, but for performance the better equipment is the way to go moving forward. I mean this is delboy1's personal business machine. He should be proud of the power in the box. And the power will be put to good use running the vm.

I think this is a good reason to go with the upgrade as long as the price is right...

 

The common factor in the slowdown does appear to be the DOS program. Before the memory upgrade and the upgrade to Win 7 you originally said that the XP systems and the network were all running OK, but now you say even they are slow when running the DOS program though not otherwise. You also said the upgraded Win 7 system was lightning fast as long as it was not running the VM and DOS.

Yours is not a common setup so we are having to draw on our general knowledge of system behaviour to try to get at the real issue here. I do not accept for one minute that it's a CPU issue and advise you again not to waste money upgrading it. However I do suspect that the amount of data having to be switched in memory between the Win 7 host, the VM and the DOS program could be your bottleneck. I run a fully populated XP guest in VMware on a 7 year old Win 7 system with a duo core 1.866 Mhz processor and only 4GB RAM and it is absolutely fine performance wise, so all else being equal it should also be OK on yours. But all else is not equal as you have this DOS system we know nothing about.

The upgrade I would recommend on the basis of your description of the problem would be to get your supplier to fit a 256GB SSD (solid state drive) and to transfer your Win 7 system with VMware onto it. I have another PC, also with Win 7 and VMware but this one has an SSD. Performance with the SSD is totally transformed as a result of the huge increase in memory read and write speeds with SSD compared with a conventional HDD (hard disk drive).

That's the best I can do. Others obviously have different views so you might want to discuss the choice with your supplier.