Sound of justice and freedom

"A war can end when the soldiers choose to stop fighting it." Lt. Ehren Watada



“I’ve come to believe this is an illegal and an immoral war, and the order to have us deploy to Iraq is unlawful. I won’t follow this order and I won’t participate in something I believe is wrong.” Lt. Ehren Watada


Thank you Lt. Ehren Watada for refusing an illegal war , all of us are standing up with you for your courage in taking your decision, and believe that we can all learn something from your courage.


"NO" for war and oppression, "YES" for peace and justice.


Here , you will find all the truths about Lt. Ehren Watada

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thanks_for_the_death_of_our_sons/message/735


Stand with us , with Lt. Watada, Suzanne Swift , with justice and freedom
With Cindy Sheehan and all those who lost their loved ones in Iraq.

Join us in this group , join the sound of justice and freedom , and you will find all events and news , anti- war, anti- opression, anti- tyranny.


Join Camp Casey August 16th-Sept 2nd 2006

Cindy Sheehan and Gold Star Families for Peace will be returning to Crawford Tx. President Bush has still not satisfactorily answered our question, "What Noble Cause did our loved ones die for?" One year later we are still in the quagmire that is Iraq. As of this writing 2497 of our brave and noble military men and women have died for this Noble Cause. Join us at Camp Casey and show the President that we will not accept one more death be it American or Iraqi.

Here, you will find all details about this event


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thanks_for_the_death_of_our_sons/message/686

 

There's an election coming up fairly soon; why don't you form your own party, run for president, win the election, withdraw all the troops, and let Al-Quieda claim victory over the infidels. I'm sure skycrapers wouldn't be in any immediate danger, air and subway travel would undoubtedly be safer, the French could give us all their surrender war emblems, and we'll all sing Kumbaya 'cause all would be right in the world. Don't worry that those actions would cheapen the sacrifices of the troops still over there, they'll come home, be in a parade, get some half-ass benefits, and will probably be forgotten by the time Lance Bass announces he's Tinker Bell. Cindy Sheehan could be your mascot, too.

/rant

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f368/star-n-abby/Images/support_our_troops.gif


http://troopssupport.com/

 

It was irresponsible to start this war, it would be twice as irresponsible to walk away without leaving something better behind.

I believe the war is immoral, but the consequences of just walking away is even more so. We've torn the country up, now we have to fix it as best we can. Just wish our leadership was a lot smarter instead of hoping things will work out.

The one lesson I hope we've learned from Vietnam is our troops are as much victims of our goverment as the Iraqi's, and always deserve our full support. They didn't join to invade Iraq, they joined the armed forces to protect and defend America, and deserve our applause and admiration for putting themselves in harms way for the rest of us.

Afganistan is a righteous war, I'm still not sure why Iraq was invaded. It was pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that the manure about WMD was bogus at the time, the special interests were involved and wanted this.

 

Afghanistan was fostering terrorism but Iraq?? And yet there weren’t any shortages to choose from … Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Syria.
Countries are primarily motivated by self-interest and greed. The rhetoric from Iran increases every time its economy slips further down the toilet. The same rhetoric keeps Joe Saudi from asking how come my slice of this enormous cake isn’t bigger.
If G.W. really wanted to stop the terrorism money train wouldn’t he have been better off spending half a trillion on fusion and fuel cells to stuff the Saudis? This could also have enshrined the US as an economic super power into the next millennium.
By contrast individuals are maximally motivated by loyalty and devotion…tribal emotions. The reason why armies want sixteen year olds as recruits is because this is when their loyalty to their friends is maximal and most pliable (before it is transferred to partners and families). The reason why a soldier will stay in a trench while a tank rolls towards them is because they won't let their friends down.

So how should we fight terrorism? By supporting or leaning on countries that foster it?
But look at them… mostly thinly veiled military based dictatorships. Maybe we should be encouraging democracy instead. The reason why Hezbollah captured some hearts and minds was not because of a dose of God but because of a dose of cheap health and education (funded by Iran). However many people just moved away because most people don’t want to be ruled by religious nutters.

Maybe we should give into hate and fight terrorism by taking the gloves off… Name a town associated with terrorist activities. Set the exchange rate. Say a hundred of their civilians for one of ours. Then apply the rule. Then name the next town. The SS tried this in WW2 to deal with partisans. It didn’t work but they didn’t have neutron bombs.

But there is another way. A standing UN volunteer force with a sole mandate to enforce peace with no vetoes…either that or an invasion from outer space to unite us. Oops.. that’s probably five cents worth...three cheers for democracy and freedom of speech for all.

 

I think we agree on the basics. We just have to keep speaking out, even if we don't always agree on specifics.

 

This use of the phrase "support our troops" really, honestly upsets me. I feel it is being used more than a little disengenuously. In this circumstance, I don't understand how you could POSSIBLY think that blankly spitting out that link has any sort of merritt here. The link posted was about the actions of two soldiers and a soldier's mother. Somehow, people supporting these men are failing to support the troops? That's false. They are failing to support the troops who happen to agree with your politics.

AbbySue, I'm not intending to lump you in with these types, but far too many use "troop support" in the most despicable way possible. These people look at families trying to send a message of hope to their loved ones over seas, and jump onto their bandwagon because it suits a political agenda. By wrapping their support for the invasion in a veil of support for the troops, they make any kind of dissent or reasonable discussion impossible. How do you argue when the premiss is a lie?

The true tragedy here is that there really ARE people supporting the troops with no agenda, and their message is watered down by careless exploitation of the argument.

That website gives away its agenda pretty quick with this:

http://troopssupport.com/WRFreep-icon.jpg

This is crap. Supporting troops is about wanting to see them kept safe and whole, not about praising the mission they were handed by some armchair generals.

You (the political right, again, not necessarily anyone on this board unless they should choose to say it is so) do not get to own the troops the same way that you don't get to own the flag, the memory of the victims of 9/11, or the term "family values."

Pretending that innate virtues side with one political ideology is despicable, and it needs to end.

 

Support American troops in what? You mean more rapes more torture more murders? How about this one for madness, they Flattened the city of fallujah to save it? Lets not forget that America used napalm a banned weapon on the civillian population, admitted in their own army magazine..that is what brought them on top, bragging to each other in stories of how they seen people melt. Oh you must know that all fleeing families from that poor city had all the males turned back at gun point from the age of 15 onwards..I guess these American soldiers needed more bodies so the bullets do not get wasted.. Anyone who supports the troops want to tell me how you can defend these actions? it is pure B.S to say support the troops, they have committed untold war crimes, yet i guess some here and ones who ignore me of late are supporting America in its escalating shame in the eyes of the world?

http://www.meaus.com/2004-torture-in-iraq.JPEG

http://www.soundofegypt.com/images/news/iraq/abuse/040510onslpo_prison_03_p350.jpg

http://www.soundofegypt.com/images/news/iraq/abuse/new-toture5.jpg

http://www.soundofegypt.com/images/news/iraq/abuse/abuse5.jpg

Still support the troops?

The UN weapons inspectors had it under control from day 1 as it is proved, this was not a war (sorry cold blooded war crime occupation) of need, this was a clear case of a war of choice.Anyone care to say otherwise..And please do not bring up 9/11 Iraq had nothing and i mean nothing to do with 9/11.
But then your own criminal admin always had known this from day one, but hey lets not silly little whte lies get in the way i guess..

Remember the way you tortured this poor guy..The shame alone from this 1 picture showed the world what Iraq was really about..WMD is nothing but a pure laod of lies..
http://www.democracyuprising.com/articles/2004/images/iraq_torture2.jpg

It is so fantastic to see the brave Iraqi freedom fighters, and yes they are 99% Iraqi who are defending their Country under occupation. I wonder how many Americans who call them terrorists would behave if it were their own country treated the same. you would defend your lives and honour and land the very same.
They gave the French civillian fighters meddals, what is different today with Iraqis fighting an occupation as brutal as the germans were.



Now i am happy to prove many many times and i can back it up of the disgusting war crimes America is committing each day.

I remember there was some here a few years ago when i was once here then, supporting the illegal war crime ridden war on the belief that there was WMD, now the goal posts have been moved so many times, by that lunatic of a president, who many still believe in the occupation and murder of a whole people.

The big bad brave soldiers flattened a fenced of 1000 year historic site the other day used bull dozers to make a football field..How mad is that.

Tell me what is it the soldiers are doing when they are not killing everything that is above the age of 7 days old?

It is sad to see these war crimes still being supported.

Anyone trying to supporting this whole sorry affair in Iraq lost the high ground from the very start, and it went down hill rapidly from then.

 

I'm sure you could. Question: Can you do it without any internet sources? The internet is one of the most inaccurate sources of war-related facts, as any Herman-The-Wonder-Lizard could get a website and pretty much claim anything they wanted.


War crimes....such a weak argument to NOT support troops. I got it, let's just change the slogan to "Support 99.8% of the Troops".

Throughout military history, no war has gone without a small faction of the fighting force deciding to take matters in their own hands and letting their warped minds take control. Yeah, I know, American soldiers are the only ones guilty of committing crimes like this. Saddam had his people over for tea and finger sandwiches with a side order of gas, the ever face-changing Moammar Gadhafi trained his fighting force to be humanitarians (just remove the left arm), Idi Amin would dine on his captives; the list can go on. American soldiers aren't saints, but they're not league leaders in war crimes, either.

War is ugly; war is not the Fox News highlights brought to you by some Barbie-looking, dead-from-the-neck-up puppet that follows the war news with the latest from the Star Jones front. There are some members on this board that served in the military, and do-what-you-have-to-do to save your ass is not just the Tip-of-the-Day.

Seems to me many of the weenies whining about the war don't have the ballz to go fight in one, but gladly live off the liberties granted by the sacrfices of others to hold their protests.

If I was President and a group brought their protest ship onto my private propety, you'd better believe I'd fire a shot across the bow.

@ scouse: It's great to see you posting again, hope you and Sandra are doing well. Any news on the little scouser front? Abby and I have been hoping you'd both would have been blessed by now.

 

What he said.

Thing to remember, these are aberations, not the norm. If they are more common than in the past I blame Bush, his lame policies concerning prisoners and torture, and the individuals commiting them, not the group. Some truely insane policies backed by Congress (and now starting to be denied) and ignored by the Supreme Court (until lately) created fertile ground for this stuff to take place.

THIS was the reason I didn't want to go to war in Irag in the first place. War is a hellish thing that brings out hellish deeds on every side, from beheadings of civilians and massive car bombing to Abu Gab prison. The thing is, will leaving improve matters? I don't think so, and a lot of people who had their head in the sand are starting to come up for air. Bad as it is, it can and will get worse if we take the easy road, like we did the first time.

I have heard arguements that we are sliding into a 3rd world war. It is possible, but I have always believed that the 2nd world war was caused by misplaced pasifism. If Germany knew that they would have to fight England, the United States, and the former Soviet Union before he started invastions he might have paused, but he got all the wrong signals and went ahead. Even Sadams first attempt at Kuit was caused by his belief we would just sit there and let him. You don't stop a bully by backing down, and if the US is being a bully, a lot of checks and balances that were shut down by 9-11 are starting to reinstate themselves. At least this is my hope.