Texas Soldier's Letter to kerry

1. I am a U.S. citizen.
2. I have also. I especially like it when your politicians duke it out on the Commons floor. It's like pro wrestling with cooler accents and better diction.
3. UK politicians would get billion pound payoffs also if your economy wasn't being choked by your bloated welfare state (the dole, in other words).
4. If Gore would have done a better job presenting himself as the best alternative, the election wouldn't have been even close. He has only himself to blame.
5.They can't even keep the oil flowing in Iraq long enough to satisfy domestic demand, let alone to make billion dollar oil payoffs. The word is magnates, magnets go on the fridge.
6. WWII, for instance. Millions of Jews would disagree, at least the lucky ones who survived Hitler's evil master plan. Also, you and your countrymen wold be reading "Mien Kampf" and shouting "Sieg Heil" outside Buckingham Palace.
7. I rely on free news outlets like CNN,FNC, BBC, and others for my news, not my politicians. I've yet to see these massive protests anywhere.
8. What about the veterans of Korea, or even the Greatest Generation. After all, they only saved the world from Evil.

 

Very well said JP

ROFLMAO!


@laurieB: What I think is naive is to try to explain away complex international social/economic/political issues with the same old tired anti-Bush/anti-USA/anti-war baloney.

 

to cowboy :- please dont get me wrong. there are many wonderful things about america and americans (including me lol) i am not naive, just a realist. i did not blame america for anything, let alone 'all the problems under the sun'. understanding ANY society is not an easy thing and requires time and effort and desire. please dont quote lincoln as those days are as far gone as the british empire is. i do not live in mainland mianstream america, i live on a tiny island further away from you than the faulklands were from england.

to just playing:- there are PLENTY of problems in england (why do you think i live here?) i dont see how you can blame gore for the fact bush cheated, if the best you can do is correct my spelling than that doesnt say much, does it? there is a great deal of difference in defending your country and invading another, CNN and BBC are not 'free news' they are government controled..try ITN. the discussion centered around kerrys right to speak out about vietnam. that was a very 'peculiar' war that left a bad taste in the mouths of most that took part.

to alan:-i didnt say i was anti bush, i simply pointed out that he had a vested intrest. i certainly didnt say i was anti US i think the constitution is the most inspiring document on the face of the planet. i wish england had one...but dont let me start ...as for being anti-war, ..is there such a thing as pro-war? is it alright to support this war with the same old pro-bush pro USA pro-war balony than?

before anybody starts quoting 911 as an excuse to invade another country...the irish have been bombing england for years. maybe we should not only declare war on them but bomb the US as well since thats where they get a great deal of their support and money.

lastly i would hate to think that you can make political comments on this board only if you agree with everybody else.
in the interests of US/UK relations i shall gracefully retire from this thread.
aloha to you all. laurie

 

[hijack]

Yeah. The Men's department

Duffle envy. You could have done the same thing I did: I made my own. Plus several others for cases of beer, bottles of Crown, and assorted other goodies. I got so good at making them that I even started sewing the name tags on them so that they could easily be identified. [/hijack]

 

I still can't get over how people can be so deluded into believing that Bush stole the election.

If Gore had won his home state, as Bush did, he would have won the election. If you can't win your home state, there is definitely something wrong.

 

Some of the crap I agree, but its funny that some of the stuff you talk about is older than dirt.

But none of the above makes any american naive.

 

Here is my challenge to you, laurieb.

Back that comment up with factual information. I want links to reputable sites.

Until you do, you are nothing to listen to.

 

Well personally I love it! And that is hard to admit when you come from "Godzone -(God's own country) pretty little NZ. Sheesh this is a real hornet's nest so here is my two cents , I have lived all over the world (incl UK) as I imagine many others of you have too, especially our service people,many cultures, religions and politics. All of them with few exceptions have both good and bad and whether or not one agrees with them that is the nature of our world. I have deep personal opinions which I will not post because 1. it's too early and 2. I really like it here . There, that's my example of democracy for the day. Carry on.

 

But what about me?


Oh, yeah! We could sure use you right now, GT.

 

Hello AbbySue! I'm an American citizen I just have a fetish with Canada.
Well no.. not a fetish... just... an interest I guess you could say.


I can see how you thought I was Canadian.

 

Nope never been to Canada. I've been to Flordia though.
I would love to move to Canada someday though. Or New York. Either one.


Also, I remember in one of my earlier posts when I first joined I was ranting about the Canadian Goverment and how Canada was so great. (I'm sure xFlat remembers this )
So I'm sure you got confused by that.

 

I'm the restrained one Abby was talking about. And I'm at work for another 5 hours, so don't have time to write a book, but briefly:

U.S. politicians are not subject to billion dollar payoffs either. They ARE subject to both support for their re-election efforts, and are frequently offered cushy jobs once they leave office, and I suspect some of that happens in jolly old England as well. Quid-pro-quo has been a political fact of life in every government since Adam & Eve's kids started organizing. Ours isn't perfect either, but better than most.

Bush did NOT cheat to get into office. Very close election, with several states virtual dead heats. The famous Florida recount was much ado about nothing. Those votes have been recounted by independent outside groups, including an independent auditing company hired by a consortium of all the major news networks, and every single recount has come up close, but Bush won it. The Supreme Court decision that gets waved around was simply a demand that Florida stop trying to change their own rules after the fact, which is ILLEGAL. The only people still bleating that Bush cheated are the hard-core Democrats that simply refuse to face facts. If Gore had simply won in his own home state of Tennessee (which he lost by a wide margin), there would have been no contest at all. A lot of our own citizens don't understand the Electoral College, and I suspect you don't either. The election results were real.

Neither the current nor the first Gulf War was for personal oil profits for the U.S. We buy the majority of our oil from South America; mideast oil is a fairly small percentage for us. Gulf oil IS critical to the world economy as a whole, and if you think world stability is not a factor in political decisions, for a lot more than just the U.S., you're the naive one. Wars have been fought over water rights for agriculture, much less for one of the primary necessities for the world's economy. Why else does everybody have an interest in what happens there, but nobody cares about the million black Africans that may die at the hands of the Muslim majority in Sudan this year? And lots of other worthy causes around the world. If personal gain and "Blood for oil" were honest arguments, we'd own the bloody oil wells over there long since.

I lived through the Viet Nam war era and war protests, and I'm not a veteran. Protests today are not NEARLY as widespread, as hate filled, or as violent as they were in late 60s/early 70s. No protesters have been shot in the current round either. Also, there were no gatherings in FAVOR of the government's position back then, and there have been quite a few of those this time around. Huge differences.

And while it's true that there is no such thing as a "good" war, there indeed is such a thing as a just war. Many have been just, or worth fighting for. WWII has already been mentioned. Opinions vary widely on what's worth fighting for, but if you truly believe NOTHING is worth fighting for, you've never studied history, current or past. Evil never just goes away. It has to be killed.

 

Don't quote Lincoln? Why not? Because he lived and died 140 years ago? Does that make him any less wise or any less forward-thinking? Should we ignore the lessons of history simply because it's history? Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.

 

I'm glad I made your day, but would you care to elaborate?

 

Whats there to elaborate?

 

You are exactly right. When we underestimate the savagery of others, we get rudely awakened. But, then, too many people tend to forget their lesson and start complaining when we take steps to avoid further savagery.

 

From another Texan who is a vet (non-war time) and has a strong military tie in the past (Army Brat). As a child in Germany I was there when the wall went up (one scared shot from either side would have put us in the center of a battle field). I also served my time there, but alas the wall didn't come down until years after I had returned home. I saw first hand the shape of our battered troops who returned from Vietnam since we where in El Paso where a major miltary hospital is (one I was born in). I also experience first hand the men in uniform coming to tell wifes and the kids their loved one wouldn't be returning and how the minute they were seen all were in hopes they weren't looking for them. My Father was true military all the way, but understood and accepted my point of view as different from his. I know all the basis of that undeclared war, but the bottom line is all it was being was a slaughter box because instead of Declaring War so our troops could bomb bridges and fight to the fullest (which is the only way victory can be had) they had to fight with one hand tied behind their back. I would have backed the war if they had Declared it a war and let our guys really fight, but as it was they were just spinning their wheels and getting killed, mamed or scared for life. One of our best friend wasn't in country for more than a week before I saw him in the hospital state side (in Maryland at the time) with both his legs blown off. This older dedicated military man said he didn't know what the h_ll we were doing there on National TV and you know what he got for that. Repremanded and punished for what he said. Of course they edited out his full statement, which ended with the fact they were fighting with their hands tied behind their backs.
I don't know what Kerry's words on it were either just that he came our against it and wasn't the only vet that did and anyone who goes through such a battle surely has the right to their opinion without being called a traitor. But I do know Bush had his way bought out of going which is getting tied up into the Texas Lottery scams and may come out in court before it's all over.
I'm not a Republican or Democrat, I voted for Bush against Clinton because I thought he was the better man. I'll regret that mistake for the rest of my life only because of what he has done since then. He had better morals, but lacks in common sense. We had a right to go against Laden & his bunch, but no right to go into Iraq. Yes he was a murderous leader, but the same can be said of the leader of China, N. Korea, and other Nations. Laden and Saddam where not bossom buddies, and believe me if any weapons of mass destruction did exist they would have used them by now for sure. Remember they are not affraid of dieing or caring how many they take out with them even if it is their own. Like the Drug war we are trying to fight outside this country when securing it first should have been a major goal along with going solely after Bin Laden. BTW he is probably playing in and out of the border of Pakistan and not working in our local 7-11 . All his group has done now is grow stronger (more recruits) and waiting for their next chance to hit on our shores. Believe me this time (unlike last time when it would have been just as easy to crash all the planes into nuclear plants and take out masses) that will be their goal this time around. That's why he should have remained priority one until he was taken down.
Thus politics had taken a deadly turn. We need a leader who has common sense enough to make up their own mind (can tell a lie from the truth) and know who the real foe is. Bush has strayed from the right path in this matter and you'll later learn with history how big of a folly it really was in Iraq. I'm not saying the troops have done anything wrong, they are in the right because they are doing their job and just following orders, it's the person who is giving the orders that will have all the blood on their hands. All of our troops are hero's who are fighting, dying and doing their job.
This time around both canidates are not the greatest, but I'll vote for the one who is not willing to blow up the Middle East over Israel, and will finish the only job which should be at hand--take out Laden which so far seems to be Kerry. We can't just walk out of Iraq now and leave them in worse shape than before we went in, but we don't need to widen this any further going into any other Islamic countries unless it is pretty well known that Bin Laden is in it (i.e. Pakastan). If we have to go into there it will result in a Government we will have to try to keep in power and it's barely hanging in there as it is thus it will be another major battle ground.

Kerry: Well he's sure not God's gift to women that's for sure....how true

A traitor in my books is someone who's actions costs the lives of his fellow man when he goes against them. How many died because Kerry protested the war? None. Now Jane Fonda is a different story, people did die while listening to her ranting in Nam. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and bring around change. I regret we had to pull out and leave those people to a terrible fate, but you can't fight with your hands tide behind your back and expect to win. We also left some of our own behind, alive or dead but that is just a fact of war, always has been and always will be. Leave no one behind has always been the right way to shoot for, but it is not always the way it has ended up.

A true warrior will only fight for a cause they are willing to die for. Remember David & Goliath, might doen't always win. You can't bomb or over-power a true warrior into submission, they will live and fight another day. The only way to true victory is either through mass destruction (unfortunately Japan) or by fighting on equal terms and grounds. Rifle against rifle, bomb against bomb, tank against tank, sord against sord, rock against rock. Least your warrioring foe will not accept defeat.

Following the Gevenva Convention no matter if our foes do, or if they belong to a country or not is the only right thing to do. I'm of the old school, fight to the end or run to live & fight another day, but never surrender. Those that do or did, more power to them but I'd rather go down fighting, it's highly unlikely I'd survive captivity anyway.

Find the cost of freedom, burried in the ground. A song that rings so true. Another place to look is in your local VA Hospitals to see how those who gave their all are being treated. In times of battle it is pretty good though there is a shortage of good doctors then, but in-between them is a different story. Benefits are constantly being cut on them as our Government constantly gives itself pay raises. What happened on 911 was terrible, but those familys only deserved the same as any military family gets when their loved ones are lost. Life insurance policys don't cover times of war or cautrastrophys, so the military familys take a big hit when their love one dies in battle?

More than enough said. And yes the President was emailed all along with the same information and warning him of the mis-information he was falling for on Iraq. Iraq was a UN problem, not an American one. Laden definately is an American problem that needs taken out before we are taken out (not completely but on a mass scale). Someone stated who was going to come to the save the world? MS domination theory gone to far. It's up to the world to save the world and not any one Nation. We have no right to become dictators and tell other countried how to live and what to believe in. United we stand divided we fall. To take Laden out we need the support of the world and not to be divided from it. Which brings the last knowledge to head, known by all people who have been in the military. Lack of communication between the forces has always been a problem and had even cost lives in times of war and of peace (NATO war games). Maybe it is time to have only one force here, and later world wide.

I already know the reason 911 happened and some day the rest of you will know the truth and facts. It wasn't over hating our Freedom, i.e. all the reasons that was given by Bush. Some one at the White House was made aware of it due to the "flagged wording" in the email message causing it to be one that would at least be read. I seriously doubt I am wrong in this one, and proof is already begining to surface to prove me right. Right now it is just to hard for us to realize or work hard to surface it. But remember we have not always been in the right. Women had to fight for the right to vote, we took land away from the Indians and Mexico and slavery existed. What is seen as right at one time does not always survive the ages. All people make mistakes in life and all Nations will do the same along the way. The key is to learn from the mistakes.

Views have been express, now from both sides of the picture. I honor and understand yours and am pretty sure it's a one way street. I mean no malice or wish to upset any one. I have lived at what was considered Ground Zero most of my life and was hoping those days were over, but there not since a nuclear plant lies between my place and the Bush ranch so if they go for him here (which is probably their ideal of the best place, right at home) then I'm back at Ground Zero all over again until Laden is taken out. Me and my animals would be no great loss, but all the other people would be. All of my closest loved ones are 6' under, so my caring is not for the sake of family but of other's family's. Last song, Why should I care? Because that's the way I was taught to be and have become.

My thoughts and prayers have stayed with my brothers in arms every since this started, every single day.

 

Wow BlueStar I wish I had better words

I had been reading these posts, not really paying attention (I am not a poltical person)

I did get mad at some, chuckle at some, but for the most part, just read.
I am a behind the scenes reader. Get to know people that way.

Then I came to your post...........

So much thought went into it.

It made me think back, years back. It brought tears to my eyes. It got my thought proccesses going. And..........

It made me realize, there are good people in this country. People who care. Who see what is happening.
I, too, pray every day for our men and women who serve. I work with a lady who lost her son in Iraq.

I just want to say thak you for your post. I wish I was better at words and could say more, but hope you get my meaning.

Gal

 

Thank you very much for your comments Gal. I am only a politcal person when I see a need to be. We are alike in usually I get to know people by listening first so I can better communicate on their level (my level is a free for all since I have known all types in my life from upper class to street class) and I tend to be a shy person until I get to know someone.

When it comes to words I don't always use them as wisely as I should, thus I have learned to state I never mean to be offensive or upset anyone which I don't. Thus I usually walk away from verbal engagements which lead to upseting someone. I'm a fighter when it comes to life & death, but not when it comes to words leading into a heated discussion.

Tell your co-worker who lost her son in Iraq, my thoughts and prayers go out to her also. Though she will for ever miss him, he gave his life Honerably in a cause which will lead hopefully to a better life for those that live in Iraq which from the past we did owe them it (explained below but she doesn't need to hear it).

While I don't believe we had grounds to enter Iraq this time, last time was the time this full scale scene should have played out to take Saddam down or when he was using chemical warfare on his own people. Iraq's people uprose against him the last time we where there only to have us pull out and leave them at his mercy (none), which was a wrong thing to do the way I see things. That is why I understand why they weren't willing to risk their necks this time trying to help us, they paid a high cost the last time. America has not lived in a full fledge battle ground being in it's shores since the civil war, thus it is hard to realize what it is like to exist in one as a civilian (though to some extent we are there now and in danger since enough has not been done to secure this country). I doubt their people will fill at ease without the risk of Saddam coming back into power until he is dead and all his co-herts taken down. By the same token they have a right to rule themselves however they see fit, meaning if they want a king, dictator, etc. they have a right to the type of government they want. All cultures are different in this world and should retain the right to be. It is only from with-in change should come to them. I don't like the ideal of women not being able to hold jobs, be educated, etc. but by the same token that is exactly where this country started from and the change came from with-in. All Nations should progress at their own speeds thus the changes will take and be lasting until they are changed again. Those things that are earned the hard way are the things that last, those handed out on a silver platter don't.

Your words of thank you couldn't have come at a better time, thus are more powerful than you think. A year ago yesterday I had spent about a month running back and forth to care for my animals and place while sleeping at my Aunts place to care for her, and it ended tragically (a way I was trying to prevent). 10 months before she was told her time was limited (call hospice) and in the last few months she had suffered with a lot of pain, so in a way it was a blessing that she was no longer in pain but painful since the reason I was there was to prevent what happened from happening. At least her wish of remaining at home was ful-filled, which I also had ful-filled for my own Mother though then I was living in a mobile home (had rented out my own place) on her land and it was easier to care for her full time. I had pulled an all nighter and day yesterday when I made this post to keep my mind off of sad things that such anniversarys bring the first few years after a lost loved one leaves. So thank you for letting me know I'm not all alone in this world to think the way I do and that I can still communicate those thoughts wisely. I almost didn't come back to this thread in fear of it being upsetting to someone.

 

im glad you came back. i feel for you on a number of different levels. your thoughts were well written and well read. aloha and welcome