US debt default

I hope your gubment doesn't like to joke like we do!:-D

 

The sad part, is they have us beat as far as being a joke.... I mean, the debt ceiling was there the whole time. They just ignore it, spend, then cry 'crisis!' and raise it again... (Dems and Repubs).

The they go off and attack Palin's family, and make jokes about the AlGore inventing the interweb. :-D:-D:-D (":-D" inserted to indicate sarcasm/joke.)

 

Check out the facts here: http://www.factcheck.org/

The most reliable info right there....

 

How do you know it is the most reliable info? Seems to be a group of journalists. Now, they would never lie would they? :-D:-D

Honestly, I like to get my info from several sites. Don't trust one site to be 'the truth'.

 

Bet you haven't read: about us: http://factcheck.org/about/

Never mind. rolleyes

 

I will admit to not reading every word, but that was the site where I looked at the group. And where I got the info that they are a bunch of journalists. You will please excuse my mistrust of journalists, perhaps due to the state of the news these days, or maybe my crazy Conservative thinking. While I won't say that FactCheck is not a good site, I prefer a collaboration of info, because I don't trust one source to be infallible.

I fail to see how one site can be the be all and end all of truth. rolleyesrolleyes

Is not seeking information from multiple sources not a good thing?rolleyes

:-D:-D

 

Ya, that's the saddest part man! As to Palin, I don't want to see her family being dragged into the permafrost and eventually being turned into methane! She is a nutjob just like Bachman is.

Lets get some seriously qualified folks in there, obviously I don't have a vote. Bill Maher easily comes to mind, but like any smart person, he would refuse the job.

 

Since you posted a reply that soon after me posting the website I must assume that you haven't read a single article? They are NOT biased - don't favor any party and check the facts. Guess you favor a one party view and ignore the truth/facts about both parties eh? :-D You'd be surprised what you'll find in there.

 

Perhaps we could convince Bill Maher to invade Canada and make him PM? :-D Nah, he'd find us way too relaxed politics wise. He'd run out of anything to comment about. :-D

 

Isn't it nice to be boring, let's live man!

 

I searched that link before I posted about it. I challenge you to tell me that, with 100% accuracy, a bunch of reporters are always accurate and factual.

I have not said FactCheck is not accurate, I said I prefer to look at the facts, look at different sources, then decide.

I do not consider one group, or entity, to be 'the truth'. If you want, I can show you where journalists have lied and made up things. The site you link to is made up of former Journalists.

Are they bad, do they lie? I don't know. It is just my thinking that we should look at multiple sources to form an intelligent opinion on things.

I do think the FactCheck site would be a good site to reference when investigating things. Is it the end all site of all that is accurate? I think not.

Where is your proof they are not biased? Peer reviewed facts preferred.

Who pays them, and what are their politics?

 

Fully agree with you augie. There are other things besides politics in life eh?

If you would have read the about link you would have seen who pays them, partially through donations. :-D

 

I did read that link, if I recall it is private donations and a few charitable groups. Let's see... Main contributer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annenberg_Foundation

And the Flora Family Foundation. From about Flora's site: " B Lab (“B” stands for “beneficial”) seeks to enable for-profit businesses to constructively address issues such as workforce development, wealth distribution, climate change, human health, and poverty alleviation. B Lab pursues this mission through three initiatives."

Emphasis mine. Link: http://www.florafamily.org/featured_grant.html

I have not, and am not saying the FactCheck site is wrong. I do question some part of it's financial backing. I also fail to see the wisdom of seeing one site, no matter who runs it, as being the end all of truth. You seem to be somewhat adverse to seeking information from multiple places. That is of course, your right.

I have my doubts about the purpose of the FactCheck people, and that is my right as well. I have no proof they have done anything but report on the news. If you had read the link about them, you would have seen the Flora Family Foundation. Me, I am cautious when it comes to California educators, and journalists. :-D

 

Just to get back on topic for a brief moment if I may? Seems like a deal has been approved since everyone hates it but most will swallow it.:-D Stay tuned for more, this crap ain't over yet.

Now back to our normal off topic banter.:-D

 

Yes, looks to me like they kicked the can down the road a bit more. Government cuts in the future... One day, we will pay, and the bill gets higher every day due to those clowns we sent to Debt City.

 

I agree but this won't go away anytime soon either. At the very least it will give those mofo's some time to properly think about what actual improvements that they can bring to the table rather than their 'talking points'.:mad

I'm actually happy that the 'Tea Partiers'rolleyes got involved, but in the wrong way. At least it's not 'business as usual' up on the hill. Got their asses singed!:-D I'm cutting up your credit card dear, it's the best for all of us. "I hate you, dad!" Ahh, isn't that the joy of life being expressed?

 

Don't worry Augie, those clowns will be back up and spending more money soon! Just give 'em a few days...

 

I'm a 'half glass full' type of guy and always have been. We shall see if all those high priced idiots can get their acts together.

Ya know, like when each side can say 'Winning'.:-Drolleyes

 

I'm a 'half glass full' type of guy and always have been. We shall see if all those idiots can get their acts together.

Ya know, like when each side can say 'Winning'.:-Drolleyes

 

...the end is nigh! lol
It's all a set up by the financial lords of the first world nations. we need to get on with the joy of living life and living it more abundantly.
for some insight, watch the movie: 'The International' ...in it the punch line is: "The truth does not matter, it is what is communicated that does!!!"

 

I realize we don't get all facts here in Europe but watching TV news last night all it would appear they have done is raise the ceiling on spending and not cut it to a level that is commensurate with income.:confused

 

Oooo, did someone say "income" ? rolleyes

Careful, that's a dirty word with some folks.

Most have heard by now that, Suposedly rolleyes, defense spending is one of the budget items "on the table" now, as they say.

Maybe now is an appropriate time for an illuminating reminder.

Watch this short video about President Eisenhower and his farewell address warning regarding the military industrial complex -
a term that he first used and made famous in this address.

Watch it two or three times.

His daughter and son both appear in the video.

Remember, he was the quintessential military man, a West Point graduate, the Supreme Commander of allied forces in Europe
during the greatest war in human history, a two term President and a Republican.

My, how times have changed.

Military Industrial Complex - Eisenhower's Warning

 

Bill, with our wonderful 'baseline budget' scheme, the US budget automatically increases 8% per year. They made no cuts, we will be downgraded soon because of debt vs GDP.

In reality, they cut nothing, will go back to spending like crack heads in a few days. Is disgusting to me. Nobody seems to be willing to admit the debt ceiling is not the problem. The DEBT is the problem...

I think I am going to join one of the Tea Party groups.

It has begun. http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/08/02/china.us.rating/

 

The size of the debt and interest rate is just becoming staggering.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Not only that but with competition from China and the US's credit rating being downgraded by many financial institutions you really are for a bumpy ride,it had to come sooner or later.

What I don't know is how stable your economy really is?How are things over there,are people still being made redundant en-mass? They are over here,but that was expected due to the path chosen,to make drastic cuts to try and stop the deficit leak,confidence in our economy has been seriously dented due to the cuts.

If all the spending hasn't helped to keep the economy on track making money,if it hasn't worked then the fall to the ground will be doubly hard due to the excessive spending 'debt' and the wavering confidence in the economy.

It could have gone either way with one philosophy or the other,what many people don't understand is that the government has limited power where the budget and economy are concerned,they can only do so much to try and get things back on course but most of it is down to economic trends, world market and obviously the people within the country.

Governmental economics is like counting cards in poker,you can count cards and improve your chances of winning but unless you get good cards it makes no difference.

 

Bloomberg's Washington executive editor, Al Hunt, interviews former president Bill Clinton about the national debt and debt ceiling debate:
(June 30, 2011 - run time: 4 minutes, 30 seconds)

Bloomberg: Clinton interview

 

Clinton nailed the problem economic production but saying political catchphrases and slogans like "We need to focus on getting people back to work." Is a typical phrase handed out by lots of politicians. Its similar to one of my old favourites "We won't make any cuts,instead we'll make things more efficient."I hear them both a lot in different forms and when I hear them my brain shuts down :-D

I don't think any government with all its power and wisdom:-D has the ability to turn an economy around,they can ease the fall one way or another but the state of the economy as whole determines its direction.

Its simple the banks have crashed and burned now no one can borrow money,without access to credit the economy can't grow. what's interesting is just before the economic crash in America the government handed out something like 300 billion "Probably wrong I can't be bothered finding the exact number" to the banks and said just lend this money to people so business's have access to credit.

They took it and didn't lend it out.

What more could the government have done other than open a bank themselves and start lending the money out:confused I don't think anyone stateside would like to see nationalised banks.

 

Also hasn't Obama been focusing on getting people back to work with tens of business stimulus packages?

And it hasn't helped?

The only reason I mention it is because they both work for the same party.

 

:zzzAs long as money is continually printed and the debt ceiling is raised and
US gives money to foreign countries (and it's not returned) and no effort is made to pay down the debt - Hello? I had no idea the debt ceiling has been
being raised for the last 50? years! The road to destruction has been paved
and we are headed for a landslide like never before. Our children and grandchildren are headed to hell in a handbasket and they don't even know it!
I do think Bohner was headed in the right direction but when everyone else is caving in to the Prez? Well it takes a village to raise a change! Or a Congress!

 

There's only some jobs that will be available, robots will take over when it's worth it. Our premier of Quebec back in the early 80's ', who was an economist, said that without 'growth' be it locally done or by immigration would result in a %20 unemployment rate. The tech today is even more pervasive.

The Us and Canada are trying to do the same thing, probably build houses on the reclaimed dead tar sands plots, Arizona houses in the desert or cutting down trees in the Northwest! .

This is a stupid policy, think of bacteria multiplying in a test tube and you have 4 of them. It starts off as one bacteria in one test tube and just dividing to it's pleasure as long as food is available. Beer yeast comes to mind here. Doubles every few hours, how long do you think that the 4 test tubes will last including the food?

We're already there up against the wall and of course it's the poor who will/are suffering first. The whole financial paradigm of 'growth' is flawed, worked fine up until now, but it has to change. Ya'll don't do socialism well but if you don't give a decent stipend for folks to live on, then expect your judicial system to double the incarcarcerations that you currently have.(Irregardless of drug users, ya'll pay to stop this shit from coming in and ya'll pay for putting users in jail, ruining their lives and costing ya'll a pretty little penny. :-D Wake up for a bit of cost cutting and revenue generation! Enough of the prohibition!

Hello, tax hikes to everybody!. Enjoy your day.

 

"We're already there up against the wall and of course it's the poor who will/are suffering first."

What do you mean by that? No entitlement programs have been cut. I will agree we don't do Socialism well. We should not.

 

What? Not yet anyways. OK, pay the f'ing private piper man, including the $100M execs for your health care.:-D

What do you think that a budget reduction entails? Like Palin said a while ago, 'we will be killing old people' ascribed to Obama Medicare doctrine reform back in '08, now it's up to the GOP to dispute that with all the cuts that they want to make, no more keeping folks alive on machines. Who's the Death Goddess now?. Ya can't have it both ways man!.:-D

 

I was thinking about this whole debt issue, and I thought of something interesting:

How did they not see this coming? The instant the gov't started spending more money then they made, they should have fixed it. But nope, they just let it snowball until they had no choice but to face the problem. Eh, credit cards and the millions of people who foolishly run themselves into debt are to blame. If everyone used checks, cash, and debit cards we wouldn't be in such a big hole. I know this is the stereotypical "shoulda woulda coulda" response, but still.

Realistically, a house is the only thing you should have to take out a loan to pay for. Maybe for a car, but only if you absolutely need a brand new expensive one (i.e. for a long commute every day or a large work truck). In everyday life, you shouldn't have to take out loans for everything you buy (which is what credit cards do). Not using credit cards is the most efficient and most logical way to spend your money because all a credit card is is a unnecessary middleman. You don't need it, so why use it?

 

Spending on credit has been the cause of this world wide problem, not just the US but all the so called major economies (with the exception of China) have done exactly the same for many years and printing more money was always the answer but they have now reached an impasse where they can no longer service the debt.
If private business acted in such a cavalier fashion they would not be solvent for very long.
One of the biggest problems is that the very people who caused this debt mountain are the ones in charge of the recovery and can not see beyond the next election that will keep them on the gravy train.
I certainly do not have an answer to this but i do see so much waste in public expenditure that would be a good place to start.

 

They do see it coming but I think the problem is the length of elected office terms,I've heard a lot of politicians during this crisis band out this phrase "The big picture." what they often mean by that is the long haul,beyond they're elected term.

If you think about it if your only elected for four years or over here its Seven its much better to keep smiling,wrap a band aid around the problem so the guy that elected after you takes all the flak and/or give you a slim chance of being re-elected.

In England Labour "Democrat's" were in power for 14 years,the crisis happened just short end of their term and instead of dealing with the problem they kept spending,kept up appearances giving them the best chance of being re-elected and/or screwing the next guys who take over.

Over here the conservatives are taking all the flak for making harsh cuts that have to be made,over there Obama is taking all the flak as the crisis reaches a head even though the problem started way before they took office.

:-D

 

Sorry Augie, they made no cuts. They just reduced the increase in the budget a bit. Baseline Budget means the federal spending goes up automatically 8% each year... Of course, we have not had a federal budget in almost 3 years.

When almost 50% of the US population do not pay federal income tax, and you have debt over $14 Trillion, and you raise the debt ceiling higher, so you can borrow more money to pay on your debt, then increase your spending, you are pretty much screwed, and one day the well will run dry, and you will see entitlements cut.

What does Palin have to do with the topic? Don't understand what you mean about 2008, Palin, and obama care and GOP cuts. Not following you on that and the US debt problem. But, cuts have to be made. SS and other entitlement programs will be broke in the near future if we do nothing. Then who gets paid, and from who?

And as far as health care, obama care has not kicked in yet. When it does, you will see massive debt rolling in. If I were you, I would stay in Canada Augie. Gonna get nasty fast down here.

 

Its exactly right that people will die as a direct result of cuts,there is no way around it but the other way to look at is these people wouldn't have lived anyway if spending wasn't so high, its exactly the same in England.

I've always wondered how leaders deal with numbers like that,in the end you have to go for bang for buck,if you can save 100 people's lives with £50,000 of medical care instead of one course of anti cancer drugs with a 20% chance of working then that's what you have to go for IMO.

Its a tough brutal reality,such is life. It isn't the GOP's fault for having to make these decisions without the any health system you'd be screwed anyway.

This does nothing to ease the worry of people with serious illness,it would do nothing for me and that's why people fight so much because they want to live,its human nature and I would fight just the same.

 

Of course it's not anybody's fault, GOP or the Dems, I just hate on the GOP for bringing a stupid 'talking point' up to garner votes. I guess they're all vote whores in the end.rolleyes:-D

 

Kinda like some liberals will dig up poor old Reagan for their agenda. Or just toss Palin's name out to inflame the libs... :-D:-D

 

Well said Riky. I would add one thing. Not sure about the gubment in England, but in the US, it is massively inefficient and rife with fraud and waste. So the money taken from the citizens as taxes, then re-spent by the gubment for healthcare is not a good thing. Lots of those tax dollars went to things other than healthcare.

At some point, changes have to be made. When bush was pres our debt was (from memory, sorry if my numbers are a little off.) $5 Trillion. Now, after a few years of bo, we are at $14 Trillion and rising. Heck they are already talking about raising the debt ceiling again! No real cuts have been made.

We are borrowing what .40 of every dollar we spend. Think about that. What if that was how your personal budget was? You would not last long.

 

Oh man, talking about Reagan, did ya know that he got 17 debt 'ceiling' raises throughout his tenure? He's the national debt guy!:-D

Hey, I love throwing out Palins' name out!:-D A half term governor who couldn't hack the job? What makes you think she has any savvy? Same with Bachmann. Idiotic idiots..

 

Given that the data in this image is from 2010, but:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Public_debt_percent_gdp_world_map.PNG

I always thought Australia would be a pretty awesome place to live.

 

That's what every party says about the other,they could run it more efficiently,they can't.

They have no way of magically stopping fraud and they have no way of magically making everything more efficient,as I said in my previous post efficiency drives are things that politicians throw around when they have nothing else,when they cannot or do not have any way to improve on current policy without taking money away from citizens or some form of basic healthcare.

So I guess I disagree with you on that point.

But anyway I can see you moving toward private versus public healthcare:-D I'm not going there...

 

BUCKLE UP!



DOW Jones down 4.3% TODAY!

 

I've yet to see anyone put up the supporting statistics demonstrating these assertions.

Bush started with 5.7 trillion and bumped it up to 10.6 trillion.

 

Gawd Just Playin, putting it in chart form really hits hard. Where did you get this from and what does the GOP publish in rebuttal, if anything?rolleyes:-D

 

Ahhh some factual numbers JP they're always helpful:-D

I said it when Obama took office,there is nothing Obama can do in 4 years to fix the broken economy and as I said the tough decisions he has to make will end up in him not being re-elected.

If he had cut everything then people would have hated him anyway and confidence in the economy would have been affected as it has been over here and the end result would have been the same,larger deficit.

Damned if he does,damned if he don't.

The conservatives are in the same boat over here,they won't be re-elected.

 

It looks like it's finally time for the Green Party to take office and solve all our problems!

 

I'm not sure Rikky if Obama can lose the next election. Sure everybody's PO'd but so what? They,(GOP) have a crap line up man.

Mitt Romney having to fight with his own party about his medical plan? Ron Paul seems to be the only human on that roster.rolleyes:-D

Nah, Clinton did it and so can BO. As long as Trump doesn't try and shit his way in again!. Oh wait, that would be a good thing.

Maybe Trump could go on a bus tour with Palin and Bachman! You betcha we's got those dollars corralled! Out pops a new kid with weird hair thing on his head.roflmao

 

I was referring to recently how the press said Regan got along so well with Tip O'Neal... When they didn't.

And I think bo has Reagan beat as the World Debt Champion! :-D

"Hey, I love throwing out Palins' name out! A half term governor who couldn't hack the job? What makes you think she has any savvy? Same with Bachmann. Idiotic idiots.." Hmm, but Augie, I think Palin is doing pretty well from her book and such. What, I wonder if she makes enough to pay federal taxes...

 

I'd think she be up in the $250K+ range at least. :-D Right Fred? Give up some sugar, honey!