US industrial decline?

So are GM and Ford on the way out, or to paraphrase Mark Twain has news of their death been greatly exaggerated? With IBM selling out their PC side to Lenovo, and another Chinese company's failed bid for Unocal 76, can US industry recover?


Domestic

http://www.cogulus.com/archive/charger/simpsons/bandit/tilt001.jpg

&

Import

http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/civic/cv-ka1-210a/image/cvc02top.jpg

 

U.S. industry has been in decline for many years. Last stat I read, which was a couple years ago, was that only 11 million people total are still involved in manufacturing in any way.

U.S. carmakers are indeed on the ropes, although I don't know if they're in any immediate danger of going under. Other than the SUV and truck markets, they've been slow to adapt and modernize to world standards, and imports are now taking a large chunk of those markets too.

Plus, the U.S. carmakers are financially hobbled by their unions. Every GM car produced must pay $1500.00 towards their retirement and employee benefits that the non-union foreign manufacturers don't have to pay. None of the foreign factories building cars over here are union shops. That's $1500.00 that Nissan, Toyota, etc. can put into fit/finish/performance/quality for "equivalent" cars, making them better perceived values, and making it harder for the Big Three to compete.

 

Could it really be true, that I've caught G.T. in a factual error?! What's the world come to????

Many foreign factories here (and in Canada) are UAW-organized.
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/cartruck2006.cfm

 

There's no Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, Kia vehiciles on that list. so a factual error? not really, just an error in the manufacturers he used in his example.

Hooray for unions!!!! (not really)..

 

As Kodo noted, there are no Hondas or Nissans on that list, and for Toyota, only the Corolla, with an asterisk that explains that some are imports not made here. And those three are the biggest competition to the U.S. big three. Saying "none" of the foreign's are unionized IS incorrect, but the principle is sound. I was going off of what I heard just last weekend on Wall Street Week.

 

Americas industry is in steep decline sadly even Delphi filed for bankruptcy..

G.T is spot on when he said it has been like this for years..Here is an article called US Manufacturing's Steep Decline Calls for New Trade Policies this dates abck to 2003.

Here is a few words from a huge meeting with Bush and Co and it goes to show were loyalty stands with economics and cronyism that is affecting the economy as a whole. Give Bush his due he did stand his ground but those around him and their attitudes are another matter altogether..

everyone expected Mr. Bush to rubber stamp the plan under discussion: a big new tax cut. But, according to Suskind, the president was perhaps having second thoughts about cutting taxes again, and was uncharacteristically engaged.

"He asks, 'Haven't we already given money to rich people? This second tax cut's gonna do it again,'" says Suskind.

"He says, 'Didnt we already, why are we doing it again?' Now, his advisers, they say, 'Well Mr. President, the upper class, they're the entrepreneurs. That's the standard response.' And the president kind of goes, 'OK.' That's their response. And then, he comes back to it again. 'Well, shouldn't we be giving money to the middle, won't people be able to say, 'You did it once, and then you did it twice, and what was it good for?'"

But according to the transcript, White House political advisor Karl Rove jumped in.

"Karl Rove is saying to the president, a kind of mantra. 'Stick to principle. Stick to principle.' He says it over and over again," says Suskind. Don't waver.

Main article HERE a great resource of articles on the economy for those interested.

I know this is a none political site but seems like this thread is here and i did not start it i thought i could throw my 2cents in.

 

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, and SAAB don't count as foreign auto makers. I am glad to know that only Honda and Nissan count.

And unless I'm misreading, isn't the Toyota Tacoma made by...well...Toyota?

 

I spell anal-retentive with a hyphen.

 

So just out of curiosity...how come is it anal-retentive if I bring something up, but it's fact-finding when someone else does?

 

Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu and SAAB are not the serious competition that Honda, Nissan, and Toyota are in sales volume (lost sales to the U.S. makers).

And yes, the Tacoma is indeed a Toyota. It's also one of the asterisk marked models that are made here, in Canada, and a "third country" (unstated; could be Mexico, could be imported from Japan) which helps hold the overall fleet prices down, while still allowing them to advertise that they are made in the U.S.A.

I know you're a strong union advocate, but costs are what they are. And the biggest loss of sales is to the non-union factories. There are a depressing number of "American" cars on that list that are partial imports too, which don't make me happy either. (shrug)

 

I might point out...while it may seem I`m a bit biased...defending our president, and his father...that NAFTA was shoved down our throats by a democrat-controlled congress...and please explain to me why the Republican party is being blamed...ad nauseum...for a Dem-controlled attack on reasonable economics?

 

You know the funny thing? Nowhere in this thread have I even remotely implied that unions are good, bad, or indifferent. I simply keyed on the fact that you said no foreign cars are union made, and corrected that misstatement.

 

toyota rocks!! i have a corolla, hubby has a truck. could it be that they sell more just because the're better. or is that just too simple?

 

And I acknowledged that and corrected it in my second post. You WERE right about that. (And it's sure God not the first mistake I've ever made. )

 

When I did my apprenticeship back in the early eighties an instructor told us there would be three major auto builders in the world. Ford was one of them (they have unbelievable assets in Dearborn) The other two if I recall were both Japanese. He said it like it was going to happen back then. Only Chrysler went down. Oh wait, no, Corporate welfare bailed them out. The biggest problem you guys have is a trade deficit that is unfathomable. You can't blame the unions because without them no one would have enough money to buy all those products made in China and Korea.

 

Saab is owned by GM.
GM owns part of Isuzu.
Mazda is owned by Ford.

IMO, that invalidates them as foreign car makers

 

Maybe parallel between GM, Ford management and the US videogame industry in the early 80s. The market was saturated with consoles, games and the coin op arcade side. Management just thought the market was bottomless and everyday was Christmas (Atari's Ray "the czar" Kassar), but they were wrong. Today we have 3 console platforms. In 1983/84 there were six I can think of off hand. That fueled the 1984 crash.With the car world the equivalent is GM and Ford loading up the bases with big SUVs, lol.

 

because i pointed out an inaccuracy in your post with other sample manufacturers and you didn't like it. so you come back with other manufacturers not mentioned to try to backtrack...sorry, not falling for it.

 

Ford has sold more trucks in the USA the last 30 years than ANY manufacturer. Must be a reason for that eh? I`d buy a Toyota before a GM of any kind but Ford`s the best...have been for a long time.

 

i bow to your superior knowledge. (maybe its that we are closer to japan lol, maybe its the terrain, but toyota rules in hawaii)

 

The best at what?

Its all debateable--and pure opinion.

This certainly doesn't say Ford is the best:

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/6662/

 

As well...

Consumer Reports votes Toyota Tundra as the most reliable truck.

 

It wasn't that I didn't like it. It's that I didn't get how you used manfacturers not on the list to somehow (and I still don't get this) prove the point that foreign cars are not union made. The manufacturers I listed in response were included on the list.

Perhaps I'm just too tired. But I've read my posts and yours several times now, and I still don't get where you were coming from.

 

Kodo mentioned several big names not on the list. You assumed that he meant all foreign auto makers, then went on to mention other companies...

There was a problem with those examples as well...see my prior post on it. Ford and GM has thier hands in several of those companies.

It doesn't shock me that Mitsubishi is on that list either. Their, by far, biggest seller is the Mitsubishi Eclipse, and it is an North America only car. It may as well be a domestic.

 

Like Adryn said.. because I didn't come up with a 100% populated list of all auto manufacturers, you had to try and poke holes in an "argument" that didn't exist. I call that being anal.