Using/Learning Linux

Discussion in 'Software' started by aenima, Nov 4, 2003.

Page 1 of 2
  1. aenima

    aenima Private E-2

    Intel 1.8GHz. 512 Mb Ram. Windows 2k Pro. Dual 80Gb Hard Drives.

    Over the last year I've really wanted to learn one of the linux operating systems, most likely RedHat. I could easily install it on my computer, i just want to make sure that i understand what im getting into.

    I'm really good at learning how to use different computer software if i have the right resources. I've learned everything i know on my own. So if i do try to learn linux, how hard exactly is it to learn compared to other things? If i do ill definately buy a book or some type of resource, but it that enough?

    And as far as installing and booting, could i just install it on one of my hard drives (the one that my windows OS is not on) and then set up a book program to select which OS to boot?

    Finally, is it possible to connect via modem through linux with an ISP? i have DSL but its not available to me all the time so i would like to be able to connect by modem also. So is connecting to the internet by modem and DSL a difficult task?

    So if anyone can give me some answers or feedback please do so.
     
    aenima, Nov 4, 2003
    #1
  2. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    I would not use RedHat, never found it home user friendly. I would suggest using Lindows (though you dont learn much Linux) or Suse or Mandrake. If you buy Suse in the store, it comes with a HUGE book and you kill 2 birds with one stone. I liked Suse a lot.

    Most Linux programs do come preconfigured for internet access. Buy Partition Magic to partition your drive and dual boot.
     
    Major Attitude, Nov 4, 2003
    #2
  3. Kodo

    Kodo SNATCHSQUATCH

    Red Hat is now forcing you to pay for their product. FYI.
     
    Kodo, Nov 4, 2003
    #3
  4. aenima

    aenima Private E-2

    ok I'll take your word and look more into Suse and Mandrake. Which versions of the 2 would you suggest (such as Pro or Desktop for Suse)? There's quite a few for each one.

    If i used Partition Magic, could i partition my hard drive with the win2k OS on it and install Linux and everything still work fine? I've never done anything with partitioning so i would have to read up a little bit on it. Would partitioning the drive with that program set up a OS selection on the bootup?

    Thanks a lot man.
     
    aenima, Nov 4, 2003
    #4
  5. stuartbuckell

    stuartbuckell Private E-2

    Isnt redhat used mostly by servers? which is probably why they are charging, targeting the commercial industry. imho I dont think this is a problem to pay a small fee for a profit generating software which is 100x better than microsoft.

    Hell, microsoft uses linux to run its own servers..
     
    stuartbuckell, Nov 4, 2003
    #5
  6. Kodo

    Kodo SNATCHSQUATCH

    pretty much, but I felt compelled to make note of it to save confusion. Also, the story about ms using *nix is no longer the case. they got so much flak from everyone that they switched over to their own servers.
     
    Kodo, Nov 4, 2003
    #6
  7. stuartbuckell

    stuartbuckell Private E-2

    LOL yea they got serious flack.

    Now they run a modified version of UNIX which is what linux is, they still dont run their servers on WIN II, only zone.com

    windowsupdate doesnt use WIN II
     
    stuartbuckell, Nov 4, 2003
    #7
  8. Kodo

    Kodo SNATCHSQUATCH

    where did you get this from.. I was under the impression that they are using their 2003 server for those services due to the fact that it's .ASP .. hotmail / zone are .NET so they must be WIN.
     
    Kodo, Nov 4, 2003
    #8
  9. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Aenima,

    Desktop versions. The Pro versions are geared for corporate applications and include utilities that a home user would never dream of using. Not sure what manual Mandrake comes with, but when you pick up the Suse box, you will feel how heavy the book is.

    Personally, I currently run Lindows just because its easy. You can usually download free versions of many variations of Linux, I only say to buy something like Suse to get the software, support and huge manual all in one shot to get you rolling. Many people would say not to spend the money in the Linux community, but then again, they seem to think everything in the world should be free, yet for some reason, they go to work every day and expect a paycheck ;) You can usually get Suse, Mandrake at CompUSA if your in a hurry and can get partition magic there as well.

    Let us know how you make out.
     
    Major Attitude, Nov 4, 2003
    #9
  10. stuartbuckell

    stuartbuckell Private E-2

    My information is probably old now, pre 2003 servers, because I used to play on zone.com and knew a guy who was a MS programmer, he mentioned it when we were on comms.

    Perhaps they have finally moved over to 2k3, I hear it is quite a good improvement speedwise, but security wise?
     
    stuartbuckell, Nov 4, 2003
    #10
  11. Kodo

    Kodo SNATCHSQUATCH

    Not sure about critical security.. I've noticed that the really big bugs have filtered down to 2003 but the minor ones (the peripheri if you will) have been taken care of.
     
    Kodo, Nov 4, 2003
    #11
  12. †T-Rex †

    †T-Rex † Specialist

    :eek:

    Where have I been? I had heard Red Hat Linux 10 was to be released... is that what you are referring to that is no longer a free OS? The last Red Hat version I have is 8.0 which I received for free... it's a shame that they are now charging for their OS.
     
    †T-Rex †, Nov 4, 2003
    #12
  13. Kodo

    Kodo SNATCHSQUATCH

    and get this.. NOVELL is buying SuSE.. and no, I'm not joking..
    say good bye to SuSE.. Everything NOVELL touches turns to poop.
     
    Kodo, Nov 4, 2003
    #13
  14. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    For the package, yes. Otherwise, here's the dl link for 9.0 http://www.redhat.com/apps/download/
     
    augiedoggie, Nov 4, 2003
    #14
  15. Philipp

    Philipp Administrator Staff Member

    I recommend Knoppix - ftp://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/linux/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-03-EN.iso

    Knoppix is an installable Linux live CD distro. That means you can run the OS directly from the CD.

    Knoppix 3.3 based on the latest version of Debian SID (the unstable branch of Debian GNU/Linux) and comes with KDE 3.1.4 and OpenOffice 1.1

    Red Hat 10 is now Fedora Linux Core 1.

    Fedora is still freely available, but

    1) unsupported by Red Hat
    2) with a very short product lifetime

    http://fedora.redhat.com/about/rhel.html

    The only official Red Hat product is now Red Hat Enterprise Linux
     
    Philipp, Nov 4, 2003
    #15
  16. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    Fedora

    No, the only connection between Linux and MS is the DNS LKM (Is that it?) at their ISP, or Akame to handle the load of the DDoS of Blaster.

    They're not, they're just releasing multiple packages and 10 is now called Fedora

    Not really, if they didn't sell the UNIX license (which they didn't but SCO is full of idiots) to SCO things would be much better...



    Personally I recommend Slackware 9.1 (I hate 9.X but whatever.. I'm sure you won't have a problem with it because you didn't use older versions).
     
    Vlad902, Nov 4, 2003
    #16
  17. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    A lot of Linux gurus, like Phillip, swear by debian packages like Knoppix, but I found even the install too difficult and suggest you stick with Lindows, Mandrake or Suse as a first timer, but let us know.
     
    Major Attitude, Nov 4, 2003
    #17
  18. Philipp

    Philipp Administrator Staff Member

    Have you tried Knoppix? It's the best way to try Linux because you can run it directly from the CD :)

    LindowsOS is Debian based as well. It might be possible that you can upgrade LindowsOS to Debian SID. I upgraded last week a Libranet Classic 2.7 installation (another Debian based distro) to SID without any problems.

    A note on the partitions:
    The latest versions of SuSE Linux (9.0) and Mandrake Linux (9.1+) can resize NTFS or FAT partitions during the installation. No need to buy partition magic for the installation ;)
     
    Philipp, Nov 5, 2003
    #18
  19. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    The one time I tried Knoppix itself via the link you gave, I found it more difficult to install compared to Suse. I still prefer Partition Magic for setting up my partitions. Like I said, one of the problems with people who use Linux regularly is they forget how intimidating some of the versions are to a newbie used to Windows, though the run from CD always seem to work VERY well. When all is said and done, he will just end up sticking with Windows as his primary OS anyhow just like the other 93% of us do ;)
     
    Major Attitude, Nov 5, 2003
    #19
  20. stuartbuckell

    stuartbuckell Private E-2

    I found I had problems installing drivers for linux, such as network and graphics,

    I have an ATI Radeon 9600pro and its a real problem :/
     
    stuartbuckell, Nov 5, 2003
    #20
  21. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    Never had a problem with my Rage, have you screwed with the XF86Config? It has an ati driver that might do it...
     
    Vlad902, Nov 5, 2003
    #21
  22. aenima

    aenima Private E-2

    me again

    ok i have another simple question about installing linux. if i use partition magic to partition my hard drive and then install linux, will i need to obtain a boot selection program to select whether to boot in my win2k or linux? or is there something in linux to work all that out?
     
    aenima, Nov 5, 2003
    #22
  23. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    Linux will probably come with LILO or GRUB that can do it... I personally recommend GAG (which you can get on MG ;)) and install it to the hard drive (it fits on a floppy!!)
     
    Vlad902, Nov 5, 2003
    #23
  24. Robster12

    Robster12 The Horse Whisperer

    ROBO! my man! Go here to pick up the Knoppix (or any other distros):
    http://www.edmunds-enterprises.com/linux/index.php
    I bought the Debian WOODY Distro and it Rocks. I got the XFree86 server configured- GUI is now 1024 x 768, 70 Hz, 8bit color-good enough to start-I'll tweak later. Oh, pppconfig was not good enough by itself to let me get a connection to my ISP.
    I have to look for a script from them or something.
    Hey- Debian is my first Linux experience. It kicks butt. I WILL NOT BE DISCOURAGED!
    Its got to be worth all the struggle to learn the Debian distro... Isn't it called the "One True Way", anyway??

    Phillip, you're the best... I'm gettin' there, man, slowly but surely!!
     
    Robster12, Nov 7, 2003
    #24
  25. Robster12

    Robster12 The Horse Whisperer

    Look, people, I don't mean to hijack this thread or nothin' but I'M EXCITED! This stuff is the best thing since sliced bread, learning about the bash shell and all. Makes the M$ stuff seem....well.....BORING! I'm telling you all, I'm NOT GIVING UP! And if I can do it, anyone can! If my ISP won't me support me in this, I'm gonna find another--whatever it takes. I'm telling ya, I WANT this! When I first saw Gnome splash up correctly (took me all night, its simple now that I've been through it), I almost fell outta the chair!
     
    Robster12, Nov 7, 2003
    #25
  26. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    Now you just gotta leave it on for long periods of time for bragging rights :D

     
    Vlad902, Nov 7, 2003
    #26
  27. Robster12

    Robster12 The Horse Whisperer

    BwaHaHaHahaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' bout! Gotta get me some Free BSD, too. GRUB will do fine for the boot-loader.
    Isn't this the best? It's just gotta be worth the struggle to get the good stuff.
    BTW, RedHat is Microsoft Junior.
     
    Robster12, Nov 7, 2003
    #27
  28. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Yup, Phillip is our server admin, if you didnt know and runs ntcompatible and linuxcompatible.com. He knows his way around this crap, I just found the Suse, Mandrake, Lindows type easier for me, so we disagree, but hes not alone, Knoppix has a loyal following like most variations of Linux. I would not assume to tlak about Linux as an authority, but simply as a casual user. I just frankly like Windows XP a lot, but the tinkerer in me keeps me with a partition with some version of Linux (currently Lindows) installed. I think competition keeps em all honest and delivers a better product.

     
    Major Attitude, Nov 7, 2003
    #28
  29. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    IMHO, Grub works very well and the price is right :) I happened to try OSL2000 here some time ago before and liked it and registered it. I think if you like Grub, leave it be. I had to use OSL again because Lindows and a few others dont give you the option of a timer and auto load, ie: I load XP 85% of the time, so I have OSL set to a 10 second delay to load XP by default if I dont interfere, and can press any key in that 10 seconds to select manually.

    Maybe the linux loaders all have that capability but are disabled or hidden (Phillip?) I found Lindows by default does not have it and a couple others where Suse, RedHat, etc. , did. Found it annoying and picked my own boot utility.

    Glad your having fun, I know when I have the time, I love to try out new versions and see how they are progressing. Ill probably stop using Lindows this month as I am against the subscription concept, so probably try some freely downloadble ones... who knows maybe Knoppix again? ;)

     
    Major Attitude, Nov 7, 2003
    #29
  30. Robster12

    Robster12 The Horse Whisperer

    Robster12, Nov 7, 2003
    #30
  31. g1lgam3sh

    g1lgam3sh MajorGeek

    Just got into Mandrake 9.1 myself, understand your excitement Rob12, the 'fiddling' potential is awesome. And ain't we Geeks?

    If it ain't broke it soon will be:D
     
    g1lgam3sh, Nov 8, 2003
    #31
  32. Philipp

    Philipp Administrator Staff Member

    There is no need for a reinstall because Lindows based already on Debian. Instead try an upgrade to Debian SID :)

    To upgrade from any Debian based OS to Debian SID:

    1) Open /etc/apt/sources.list in an editor and replace it with:
    Code:
    # Debian SID
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://http.at.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib non-free
    2) Open a shell window and switch to root

    Code:
    su -
    3) Now run the following:
    Code:
    apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
    This will download all needed packages and upgrade the entire installation to Debian SID

    Note: This upgrade might break some of the Lindows tools

    4) If the upgrade fails, try the following:
    Code:
    apt-get -f install
    and resume the upgrade with
    Code:
    apt-get dist-upgrade
    Still problems? Post the error message here.

    If KDE is no longer working:
    Code:
    apt-get install kdm kdebase
    Both GRUB and LILO can do this. You can configure this setting in /boot/grub/menu.lst (GRUB) or /etc/lilo.conf (LILO).
     
    Philipp, Nov 8, 2003
    #32
  33. aenima

    aenima Private E-2

    another question

    ok i have one real quick question about installing linux...if i do no partitioning whatsoever in windows and then just boot from the linux cd, can i partition my HD for the linux OS in the installation wizard and have the 2 OS on totally different partitions? and what option would i choose in the wizard to do so?

    thanks in advance
     
    aenima, Nov 10, 2003
    #33
  34. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    You probably can... How I don't know as I haven't used whatever you're installing probably :)

    If it's Knoppix that you're talking about it runs off the CD.
     
    Vlad902, Nov 10, 2003
    #34
  35. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Phillip,
    Sorry bout that, I forget they allow this. One of them somewhere did not work well for me, Lindows I think, and forced Lindows as primary OS, so I went to a boot loader for all of them.

    Sorry for any confusion.
     
    Major Attitude, Nov 10, 2003
    #35
  36. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Hey, any of you geeks try Suse yet, I still think its better then Mandrake or Red Hat, even though Mandrake is really close.

    My hard drive went buh bye when I woke up Sunday, so now that I have a 120 gig drive, I can install more :)
     
    Major Attitude, Nov 10, 2003
    #36
  37. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    I know a couple of SuSE fiends... But this was a long time ago durign 7.X which they say was the highlight.... I don't run it but I respect those guys so I'll trust their opinion :)
     
    Vlad902, Nov 10, 2003
    #37
  38. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Translation: Linux snobs who found it too easy to use and refuse anymore because its no fun if everyone can use it? ;)

     
    Major Attitude, Nov 11, 2003
    #38
  39. Robster12

    Robster12 The Horse Whisperer

    :D
     
    Robster12, Nov 11, 2003
    #39
  40. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    No, 7.1 was the best because it ran right and everything was good, 7.0 was 'Ok' and 8.X was just getting worse... And everyone who wants some stuff to be less "easy" doesn't mean they're linux snobs, I want alot of stuff taken out of slackware because it's 2 CDs' and ALSA sucks... Doesn't mean I don't want people using it I just want it to be just right for me :)
     
    Vlad902, Nov 11, 2003
    #40
  41. Robster12

    Robster12 The Horse Whisperer

    You know it, Robo. Definitely cool, definitely "old school" with the command line and all.
    Hey, I wrote an e-mail to my ISP (peoplepc) to get info for the login chat scripts and stuff. Maybe if you get into this whole hog you can write us all a "read only" thread about using the ISP's.... Hint, hint:D :D :D
     
    Robster12, Nov 11, 2003
    #41
  42. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Vlad, you know I like you , but thats not much of an explanation. 8.1 and 8.2 that I have install easily and have plenty of programs included. It installs and runs flawlessly, except for recent video card drivers, a common complaint with a lot of distros. All the feedback I have seen on suse is positive, so I made the linux snob comment because, as you know, there is a large group, like Mac users, who think they are better then the rest and really dont welcome newcomers readily. I hope you know that was not geared directly at you . Anyhow, usually you can just download CD1, isnt that the case with Suse? I bought it in store, so I dont know.

    Anyhow again, Phillip has broken me down and I am downloading the Knoppix via the link he provided. Ill report back.

     
    Major Attitude, Nov 11, 2003
    #42
  43. da chicken

    da chicken MajorGeek

    SuSE is probably a very good way to go if you're into IT at all. Novell just bought them.
     
    da chicken, Nov 12, 2003
    #43
  44. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    Oh we'll see about that... ;P

    Actually they didn't like it because they felt it wasn't easy enough :) For the buying thing, no it isn't, SuSE makes you buy it so they can make some money, this is what mandrake has to do lately, and OpenBSD has been doing it for a while, although OpenBSD gives floppies to do net-installs, not sure about the others.
     
    Vlad902, Nov 12, 2003
    #44
  45. Robster12

    Robster12 The Horse Whisperer

    I'm just glad that Phillip broke MA down!:D ;)
     
    Robster12, Nov 12, 2003
    #45
  46. Doog

    Doog Private E-2

    First Post

    I have found all the Linux posts very interesting.
    I have enough parts to build myself a Linux box .
    Also I already have Red Hat 8.0. But from what I have been reading that might not be the way to go.
    I'm a Linux Noob never used it before.
    So if I went with RH would I be beating myself up?
    Remeber I'm a geek that's why I'm here. :D

    Thank's for your replys.

    Nice Site!!
     
    Doog, Nov 13, 2003
    #46
  47. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Vlad,
    Well, cant do it for free forever. Dont think so? Make your own, ill check back with you in 20 years. While their intentions are good, youll notice many are charging now, offering support, live updates, manuals and probably using that to market as well. Linux aint going nowhere as a free OS, sounds weird, I know, but I think a more average user who sees ads, marketing, manuals, support, etc., feels better about it. My 2 cents.

    Doog, I would consider what Phillip said, to the best of my knowledge, he is probably more versed in Linux then most of us and he likes Debian packages like Knoppix. I used RedHat and frankly it was ok, but always geared more for servers and commercial applications like that.

    In closing, the Knoppix CD failed to execute. Well, it ran, but scrolled high speed horizontally with what looked like a lot of small blue tiles, looked liked even minus the scrolling, it was not legible. I saw it call my monitor an old monitor , so might be a detection problem. Its a Samsung 21" LCD, while its 3 months old, its not that old ;) Maybe ill try an older version, might be another proglem, since this one was a beta.

     
    Major Attitude, Nov 13, 2003
    #47
  48. Vlad902

    Vlad902 Guest

    No I support it, I've always bought CDs' and t-shirts' when I could.
     
    Vlad902, Nov 13, 2003
    #48
  49. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Im downloading Gnoppix live CD to see if that one wil lrun for now since Knoppix failed on me...
     
    Major Attitude, Nov 13, 2003
    #49
  50. Philipp

    Philipp Administrator Staff Member

    Red Hat 8.0 will be discontinued end of this year (see - http://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/)

    If you still like to try a Red Hat distro, then download Fedora Core 1. Fedora Core 1 is the successor of the Red Hat Linux series for end users.

    http://fedora.redhat.com

    There are many boot options available. Check out: http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/knoppix/knoppix-cheatcodes.txt for a complete list
     
    Philipp, Nov 13, 2003
    #50
Page 1 of 2

MajorGeeks.Com Menu

Downloads All In One Tweaks \ Android \ Anti-Malware \ Anti-Virus \ Appearance \ Backup \ Browsers \ CD\DVD\Blu-Ray \ Covert Ops \ Drive Utilities \ Drivers \ Graphics \ Internet Tools \ Multimedia \ Networking \ Office Tools \ PC Games \ System Tools \ Mac/Apple/Ipad Downloads

Other News: Top Downloads \ News (Tech) \ Off Base (Other Websites News) \ Way Off Base (Offbeat Stories and Pics)

Social: Facebook \ YouTube \ Twitter \ Tumblr \ Pintrest \ RSS Feeds