What do you all think of the Hydrogen genarators for cars?

I agree, dont buy the kits they are designed to take your money. I believe I already said that once in a reply to Auggie.

As for the truck, again.Year: 85, Make: Toyota, Model: Truck 4x4, Engine:
4 cylinder 22R . any one that knows cars knows it would be a 22R.

What, now your upset? Because I started talking to you the way you were
talking to me. you refered to big oil and car companys. heres a little known fact for you. in the early 70's a man invented a carberator that got really good gas milage. much better than the standard ones being used. he even patended it. sold the whole thing to GM. It was never used and never talked about again. Tell me why.

 

Because fuel injection was invented :-D

OMG you really do think there's a conspiracy by the oil and car companies,I was only joking rolleyes

How boring.

EDIT if you would like to start over and have a more adult discussion I am willing to,I am also still willing to help you with your MPG measuring.

 

fuel injection was invented in 1957. didnt become promenent until the mid 80's try again.

WOW and your calling me stupid.roflmaoroflmaoroflmaoroflmaoroflmao

 

Excuse my choice of word,became 'prevalent', and that's spelt 'prominent' BTW' but you obviously have just read this and didn't know or why would think your carburettor story was so mysterious? oops!

I guess you don't want to let bygones be bygones and have an adult discussion,I tried.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

Rikky just so you know carbs were also used up to 1994 so why would they hide something like that? I seen it done they did the same to the EV1 with the batt's. There was a better batt for them GM bought the company that made the batt and hid it away.

 

They did that so they could say the EV1 was limited in range and then quickly snached them all up and had them crushed just like ford, toyota, and afew others. I am not picking sides I just thought some facts were missing. Lol

 

Carbs are still used until this day especially on motorbike engines but it makes no sense to hide a technology that will improve your product and help you sell more units.

I concede that corporations do buy technology and patent it,do they hide it away because there's a conspiracy to keep the little man down?To keep the sheeple spending money?Hardly,they invest millions into new technologies,ideas and patents every year sometimes they work and sometimes they don't,the ones that work get put into cars the ones that don't are resigned to the scrapheap and people say they have hid the best technology away.

The reason a lot of them are not used isn't always because they don't work as advertised,it's because they cannot be produced in large numbers to allow for profit,they are not economically viable,I believe this is the main reason a lot of people think the tech has been supressed due to a conspiracy as after a brief examination of the design or patent the tech looks good.

Its a fallacy that the patent system works to this level,most car companies search through patents and copy the good stuff making their own versions,it would be quite an incredible coincidence that most cars work the same if they didn't.

I'm interested in the battery story though if you have any links N5,,I'll read it with an open mind I'm interested in dew's carb story as well if you have any links Dew.

 

If the USA was dumb enough to suppress anything it would be picked up elsewhere. Japan and China come to mind, they have enough problems with resources they would love us to do more stupid things and let them get their foot into another door. They aren't the only ones either.

This keeps coming up in the other forums I've moved on to, to the point the topic has been permanently banned (this applies to all overunity devices and schemes). Anyone with even a small knowledge of science can see through it. The true believers are like religious fanatics. Lots of ranting and few facts, and total denial of the law of conservation of energy. If you can't make matter such as gold in your home then why can you create energy out of nothing in your car? For those who missed the big news last century matter and energy are the same thing. It is exactly the same as believing in magic, science doesn't exist (although it is critical in most of the developments that make modern technology), it is a theory (no matter it is a working theory), exactly the same as magic.

Yes, you can boost mileage by making your car run incredibly lean, but the price is your engine in the long term. They don't mention that anywhere.

Perpetual motion doesn't work, but scammers love to make money off of wishes. Since science seems to be such a low priority in the USA it is no wonder they thrive.

Ricky! You've changed! Again!

 

Just watch the movie who killed the eletric car. They raised $1000000s to buy back the EV1s from gm and gm would not take it rather they took them and crushed them. Cars today are built to last 10years you don't get what you use to get. I bet in 20years you won't see many of the newer cars on the road but 80s and older will still be driven around. Now there is some that will last but most won't be.
When I can get on a computer I will get you a link about the batt's. But you know me enough I don't say something unless I can back it up lol
As for the carbs if they sold you one that lasted 30years they would lose money because people would not have to buy factory replacements or aftermarket

 

I've watched it once but it was a long time ago I'll have to give it another go,I wasn't asking for links because I don't believe you I just like reading about this kind of thing,you make the batts sound like an interesting read with the crushing and all :-D

Nice to see you again Bill I've missed you around this place its nice to hear a voice of reason and your right,it is practically impossible to convince anyone who thinks this can work if they can't or won't grasp the science how silly HHO or hydrogen systems are,it is literally the equivalent of connecting a belt from your axle to your engine to make it more efficient.

I hope you start hanging around here a little more again

 

Ya, I believe that Japan, which has no resources except for brains and a damn good work ethic, are the most heavily invested in fusion research ATM and the US, for some obscure reason, doesn't have much in the kitty pot. I guess they like to eat Gulf oil.:-D

Welcome back Bill.

 

But why have hydrogen pipelines when you can just pipe the electricity through wires to charge car batteries?

This comes back to the age old hydrogen as a storage medium debate,its terrible,it has the energy density of coma patient,some of the numbers I was reading to have a hydrogen tank in a car with the same energy of petrol the car would have to weigh something like 13 tons 'you waste a lot of the energy just squashing the hydrogen down to fit in the tank' you can get by that by using lightweight carbon fibre tanks which can put the weight of the car down to 3 tons but then in a crash people would get blown up and even then a hydrogen atom is so small it will leak out of any container no matter how thick.

Cryogenic hydrogen?Well unless you want your car venting explosive gas in your garage like the space shuttle or if you want to have any gas left in your car the next day,the BMW car will vent all of its 30 GALLON tank in just over a week and even if you could keep it cold enough and that 30 gallon tank can only take you 100 miles the same as about 2.5 gallons in the the Toyota prius.

This is problem if we do switch over to hydrogen can we live with the problems?And we have to get it right because you don't get multiple attempts at something like what is being proposed,its not something to rush into!

And this hydrogen economy has one major flaw its based on technology that hasn't been invented yet,97% efficient solar panels?Come on,if it will only work with technology we don't yet have we can just wait until fusion becomes viable.

And no I don't work for the oil companies:-D I want a solution not more problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7

 

QUOTE:Yes, you can boost mileage by making your car run incredibly lean, but the price is your engine in the long term. They don't mention that anywhere.


Thank you Bill,
Finally some one with some common sence. This is why I experemented with it just to see what would actually happen. Yes it did almost double my gas milage. My question was: If this works what will it do to the engine. I believe I posted that question earlier. All I was getting was, its impossable, it cant work, your F in stupid for even trying. Like I tried to tell them. I read up on both arguements, during my research on this. Both sides were adament that each other was wrong. Thats why I desided to experiment with it my self, just to see what would happen. Thats also why its on and old clunker and not my 05 impala.

 

hey Slick, Whats a carburettor?
Never heard of that one before.

Now with all your science you could not tell me why this thing was working and almost doubled my gas milage. I had to be figuring some thing wrong or just flat out lying. Well unfortunetly for you some one else did anwer it for me.
It was Bill. It works by leaning out the fuel mixture. Thats how im doubling my gas milage. Eventually it was cause the engine to fail.

As for an adult conversation. you had your chance and you blew it. Thats why I posted on here in the first place. you had to make fun of me and call me stupid, and call me a lier. Until I stooped to your level and started Firing back at you. Then you wanted to have a "normal" conversation. Well as far as im concerned now you can just:kissmy Have a nice life.

 

I have never called you stupid Dew and I don't think your stupid but you certainly were acting stupid by patronising and not listening to people with a superior knowledge of a subject than you,its as if you came here knowing people would say it wouldn't work and were geared up for an argument,what kind of adult speaks to another during a discussion with the term 'whatever' :confused Even after the post when I said I was trying to help you,you insisted on insulting me /us by calling us know it all science geeks.

I'm still not sure what you were getting all bent out of shape over:confused

All I ever wanted to do was spread knowledge of physics,I hate it when a discussion breaks down to a 'who's the best',the only reason I CAME DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL was to show you the futility of it and that's why I offered for us to let it go and start again but you weren't interested.

Your right I did blow it,it saddens me,you know as little about what your doing as when you came here,well you do know a little more about how alternators work so I guess I'll take that as a consolation prize.

 

Hmm, so much for this thread eh eh? It could have been glorious!(As a Klingon lamented the fact that a superior race foiled their plans of war against the Federation.):zzz

 

To Tim W,
But Dad Playing nice is no fun at all.......................lol. Just a joke hope you get the humor.

 

Rikky,
Have a question for you. All mud slinging aside. In post # 38 I believe, you posted a video link. With a guy using formulas to prove it would not work. He stated 500w at 13. something volts. now at best a vehicle puts out 12.56v
using a dc volt meter. using the lesser amount of volts wouldnt that change his formula? If not please explain why in laymens terms.
I am not trying to argue. Hyrdogen is 4 times as explosive as gasoline. With this contraption on my truck, adding the H2 and O2 to the mixture of gasoline and air mixed by the carb already, it is leaning out the air fuel mixture and giving me my results of better gas milage. For me this could be a good thing. My truck runs overly rich, so if im leaning it out with this contraption that does explain alot. With out a complete over haul it will always run that way.

 

Look, I am willing if you still are. Ill admit it, Im a hot head always have been.
I suffer from foot in the mouth desease alot because of it.Your patronising and talking down at me didnt help any either. So I apoligize to you for losing my cool.


I never posted this hear to start an argument. I was curious to see what other people thought, and get some info from other people that might have actually tried it. you know compare notes.

 

And I apologise for being a bit of a patronising jerk I'm sorry I just love the sound of my own voice! of course I'm willing to start again I don't hold grudges,sweet we're all friends again:-D Now we can back to doing what I love,talking about science

I'll have to check the video again I haven't gone over it with a fine tooth comb and it may not be tonight its 3.50am here and i'm tryna watch a movie:-D but

Wattage = volts X amps.

500W at 13V = 38.46 amps

500W at 12.56V = 39.81 amps

So the electronics

I don't know how much you know about physics or electronics,if I go into detail about things that seems simple its because they are not and I don't know how much you know I'm not patronising you,they are very hard to understand and I'm doing my best to compress them down into a few paragraphs,also I freely admit I don't know everything where physics is concerned "But neither do physicists anyway " and I don't understand everything I'm just a guy who's interested in science and reads a lot about it,if I don't understand something I won't make something up and BS so pretty much everything I say will be true and you can have everything I know up to the limit of my knowledge for free.

Right ,I'll go into a little detail about what the numbers mean, amps or current is the amount of electricity that flows through a conductor,voltage is the amount of force pushing that flow known as electromotive force that's the easiest way to think about it,a lot of people like to use water as an analogy and its a good one, if you think of voltage as the speed of the river and current as the width of the river,if you do further study in physics you'll discover this analogy is actually wrong but it will do for now.

Wattage is the total amount of power going through a system,the width of the river multiplied by the speed of the river,if you have two you can work out the other one,in what we're testing for the amount of energy in a system the wattage is the only number that matters because its the total amount of energy that's going through our system and you can use the number to work out what's happening to the energy elsewhere in for example an engine.

So if the battery or alternator is putting out 500W but the voltage is different then that must mean there is more current 'amperes' going through the system,so it does change the maths but it doesn't change the result which is 500w.

If an alternator was putting out 500W but the voltage has dropped to say 11V then that must mean there is more current going through the system.

500W divided by 11 = 45.45 amps is going through the battery,alternator or system.

 

Also its easier to think of voltage as something that pushes its way through and current as something that is pulled or drawn through,so if you have a 12V bulb that can pull 1amp and battery with 12v and 100amps maximum output then the bulb can only pull through the amount of amps or current it requires and no more,but if you have a battery that has 24V and connect it to a 12v bulb the higher voltage will push its way through the bulb and blow it.

 

Huh?I just said 'the age old debate of hydrogen as a storage medium :confused

It is a big deal,pressurising gas takes a lot of energy,the process produces a lot of heat,hydrogen already has a low energy density and before it even gets to where its got to be you could lose 20% of its potential energy powering the compressors.

I've just read it as per your request in the previous post,that's why I posted a BMW link and quoted the stats of the BMW hydrogen car.:confused they don't have the tanks figured out,it only has a 100 mile range and they continuously vent hydrogen,we have battery powered cars now that can do more than 100 miles,they don't come with any of the drawbacks of hydrogen,although I concede ATM they don't have the performance of hydrogen.

The Hindenburg was actually caused by a combination of two different substances,one was aluminium powder and the other was Red iron oxide,they used that combination in paint because it was good at reflecting the suns heat as they often found the heat from the sun would heat the hydrogen up so much the balloon would burst.

This mixture in a 50/50 ratio is commonly known as thermite,it burns violently and is used to weld rail tracks,the same combination is also used in the shuttles solid fuel boosters although not in the same proportions.

It wasn't a smartest of Ideas:-D

Again though that's an unproven technology,do you have any info on how they would achieve 98% efficiency? It can't be through electrolysis because at best your looking at losing 20-30% in heat,there's no way around it,if you then squash it down into tanks or piplines your gonna lose another 20% of its potential energy and as you said hydrogen is first in the periodic table its the smallest atom therefore it will leak out of any container,the longer your pipeline the more will leak,even if you liquefy it you'll lose about the same due to the amount of energy wasted by the cooling equipment chilling it.

So before you've even got your sunlight off the solar site you've already lost 50% of its potential energy and that's assuming that the infrastructure around the site is 100% efficient,you've then got to get it to where its going using even more of its potential energy.

I'm not arguing against the use of hydrogen but all these problems have to be overcome before we can use it,its not the magic bullet everyone thinks battery technology is much more viable ATM and huge advances are being made every day,sending the sunlight down wires to charge a battery at home is much more efficient,cheaper,safer,everything,the charge time's will have to be sorted out though that's a major problem with battery tech ATM.

Anyways I'm gonna leave this discussion keylog because it doesn't really fit with the thread but I've enjoyed it thanks.

EDIT "I don't mean ha! take that reply keylog:-D " I mean I actually enjoy talking about this stuff thanks

 

Keylogger,

First of all to your msg that says your car's battery puts out 12.5volts. That is with the car OFF. Running it better do 13.4 or better because it has to CHARGE the battery that just started it and it only does that by having more voltage than the battery so the current flows into the battery.

I know this, with the engine on the amount of volts going to my contraption is only 12.05. the alt is putting out 13.5.

 

I know this, the amount of volts going to my contraption is 12.05 the alt is putting out 13.5 with it running.

 

Personally I think hydrogen is the future, but not the way folks do about HHO. There is a pretty good science site, physorg.com. There is a lot of stuff that might be coming down the tubes. One is a PN junction that operates in the chemical, not electronic, realm. Feed it sunlight while it is immersed in water and you get hydrogen. It tends to degrade fast, which is it's problem, but it works. Solar cell efficiencies are going up fast, it could be we will see 45% apparently come out of the blue. Superconductors are a heavy line of research, as are super efficient LEDs. Modern LEDs are already efficient enough you have to be careful with them around kids, as they will do damage to the eye if shined point blank range directly in. The one I love is still vaporware, may always be vaporware, but will have major ramifications if it every transitions into hardware. This is the EEStor capacitor (find it as spelled on Wikipedia). It claims the potential for 40 Farads at 40KV the size of a small box, about 4X the size of a shoebox.

There is enough interesting stuff out there I don't have time for fantasy. Most of it probably won't materialize, but enough will.

 

I even said it was wrong but it will do for now :confused Its my explanation in the context of MY ANALOGY which is a RIVER not a pipe,I'm tryna explain basic electronics to someone,using speed instead of pressure is EASIER to understand if you use pressure instead of speed you complicate things by introducing force over area inside a sealed vessel which is great, if everyone understands it.

The formula for Incandescent bulbs? avagadro's number,inductive resonance frequency :-D Dew asked for layman's terms so I gave them,bulb sucks juice high voltage pops bulb.

 

I've changed my mind your right my analogy was a little off,I shouldn't have to over simplify it so much.

 

WOW this post got way off topic!!!!!:-D