Where's it made?

Ok firstly, this could be a mini can'o'worms :-D
Secondly, I feel like I've done this before, but I couldn't find one, so if I have... then... read that one too! :-D

So as most of you know, I work in retail, anyone who's worked in retail has been asked all manner of ridiculous things. I'll give you a few examples of what I get in a Footwear Store.

Man walks in wearing an old beat up pair of boots and says "I bought these here 4 years ago and the sole is coming off, what are you going to do about it?"
Really? 4 years?

"I bought these mesh Nike running shoes from you 4 months ago and they are peeling off the sole and the mesh has ripped"
Me "What are you using them for?"
"I'm a roofer"

This one was classy, lady buying a pair of Dr.Martens boots, asks ...
"What can I clean them with?"
Me "You can use any product you wish, but I would suggest good old fashioned Mink Oil or Dubbin"
Her "Oh no, I'm Vegan and don't want anything made from animal products"
Me "You do realise those DM's are a full grain cow hide leather?"
Her *winking at me as if she's doing something naughty* "Yes, but that's different"

I mean seriously?

But anyway, one thing I hear over and over again is "I don't want any Chinese garbage" or "I want Something Made here"

Ok so there are quite a few products made in the USA or Canada, Uk etc... but not many, most are only assembled there and they use parts such as eyelets and lining material that are made "Offshore"

My favourite label on certain models of "Irish Setter" hunting boots "Proudly Made in The United States Of America, from imported components" :-D

Then you get the guy, you know the one, about 50-70 years of age, hard working, salt of the Earth type guy. Calls a spade a spade and is very, very narrow minded.
I want Something made here? is the question, the product in question is not, it IS of high quality and is a very well respected brand in business for maybe upto 200 years.
But no, it's made in china, so it's junk. Clarks, Nike, Reebok, Asic, Saucony, Kodiak, Merrel, Wolverine etc etc...
All junk.

Then comes the line (use with respective Country) ...

"I only buy Canadian or American Made, I wont buy any junk made offshore, I buy American Cars, my TV and Fridge etc..."

No, no you don't.
See while your product may tell you it's Made in the USA, with the exception of certain hand made specialty products and maybe a couple of others, everything that carrys that "Label" is not 100% made in any one Country.

So your American made Car, all it's wire and sheething and nuts, bolds, tires, bearings, seals, solder, capacitors, plastic molds... All Made in America?

Same for a TV, every cable and circuit board?, every screw? same for the Fridge.

This is fact, like it or not, you only have to build 60% of a product to be allowed to stamp it "Made In..."

Then we get the, it's just these companies trying to get rich buy lowering quality and making more money.
Sort of, yes, but had it ever occurred to you, that maybe... just maybe, over the past few decades we have raged for higher wages and lower prices.
This is a economical paradox, how can you possibly have lower prices when the companies making them are being pushed to pay more to make the product?
The solution?... send the machines and materials offshore, pay a tiny wage to the line workers and send qualified personnel to manage the quality control, maintain as high a quality as possible, pay a 10th the amount of wages to produce them and ship them back.
Thousands unemployed, thousands more employed.

Point is, we did it to ourselves.

Message ends :-D

 

Yeah, that's sort of similar to food items, too. It usually has a big sticker on the front "Proudly made in Australia" and an Aussie flag waving on it. Read the back and the small print - and you find it's actually "made from local and imported ingredients", which doesn't mean squat, i.m.o. rolleyes

 

In the 1960s they named a town in Japan, USA, so they could stamp things "Made in USA" rolleyes
They also had a town called Swiss and when they started making watches and clocks they used to stamp them "Swiss made" I still have an old alarm clock somewhere in the shed that I was given when I was a teenager and it is stamped on the back "Swiss made" but inside the case it is marked in ink, "Made in Japan" :-D

 

Something I've thought about for some time is what the difference in the price of a pair of shoes would be if all shoes sold in North America were assembled in North America. I'm picking on shoes because everyone needs them. Would there be that much of a difference? Is this something you can find out Ned?

 

I actually thought of you yesterday! Since I've been off, I thought it was a darn fine time to do some maintenance on my Red Wing boots. Which I bought in April 1996 and have worn pretty much constantly ever since. They are, shall we say, beat to hell and back. LOL

When I walked in, he was on the phone, so I just set them on the counter. And I watched his face go through a whole host of expressions before settling on polite customer service. When he got off the phone, I told him I was there to have the soles re-glued at the toe where they're starting to come loose, and to have caps put over the toes to cover the approximately 1x2-inch spots where the steel is showing because the leather and wood have worn completely off. And then I also bought a dozen pairs of socks and some insoles.

As he was ringing me up, he thanked me for being a real person who understands that work boots are gonna get ruined. And then he realized when I'd bought them, and asked me if I would mind writing a testimonial, that they may or may not end up using in advertising. :-D

I work with people who buy $30 boots from Walmart, made completely in China. Mine were 100% US-union made (they aren't any more, should I buy a new pair), and cost ~$160. They have to get new boots twice a year. I've been wearing mine almost 16. I totally get the "I don't want Chinese crap" mentality, because a lot of it is.

 

I used to work in car audio, video and security. I would hear the "I want a American made amp." There was a time when many brands were made here, at least assembled here. Assembled now mostly consists of a robot inserting the thru-hole components then they take a ride through the wave machine. There are still a handful of amplifier companies that assemble here but usually just the higher end models. So I would ask these customers have you ever seen a Motorola or Siemens or even a Toshiba output device labeled made in America? I would tell them I could track them down a older Linear Power or Phoenix Gold that will say Made In America on it but would be used and most likely need to be serviced to be reliable. When the price would be mentioned then the Korean or Chinese made amps would be "good enough."

 

Ah, and the inherent misunderstanding.
When you buy footwear at Walmart or some such, it IS the cheap stuff made in China, inferior technology, inferior parts and materials.
I've not been talking about the kind of shoes that look cushioned, but have a rubber or cardboard hex grid in the sole and a gel insole, I'm talking about high quality products, such as Red Wing, Terra, STC, Cofra etc that have solid PU or EVA footbeds and build with full grain, not split grain leathers and are vulcanised and not just glued.
I worked construction for many years, I destroyed good quality boots in under a year, cheap boots would last me maybe 3 months.

There is something else to be said though, we have always been more concerned with how long shoes last. Longevity is NOT the most important thing.

I'll use running shoes for this example as it's most prominent.
If you run 3-5km (2-3 miles) 3-4 times per week and have Olympic grade performance runners, they are spent at between 3-6 months (depending on your weight and alignment) they can look brand new but still be spent, once the foam has lost it's supportive solidity, it is no longer doing what it is suppose to do... which is support and cushion you, keeping you comfortable and aligned and keeping you from injury, the foam breaks down, gets too soft to properly support your weight.

Work boots are a similar idea, not quite as harsh because most of them are buillt using TPR or PU rubbers.
The point being, if you start getting ankle, knee, hip, back or neck pain at or after work, then chances are your footwear is no longer keeping your alignment true or has broken down in such a way it is causing you to walk un naturally.

Thos Red Wings you have, sure they are built like tanks, weigh about the same too :-D , built to last, but if you were to put on a pair of say Kodiak Blues or Cofra: New anaheims or an STC Shire or some such, you would see my point, no they wont last you near as long, but they will keep you comfortable, less fatigued and they flex! meaning it reduces pressure on the tendons etc in your feet.

Basically, longevity is not the be all and end all of footwear , especially when you wear them for 10 hours per day, week in and week out.

As you may have guessed,, I have little concern with how long they last, I care more about the health side of things, some of the things I know are scary and having footwear too long or buying "Cheap" can have major effects on the body and in many cases cause people to end up with orthotics at $300-$800 a pop, not to mention the fact you have to switch them out between your shoes all the time.

I pay $120 for my Nike Air Pegasus, very high end running shoe, at 50-60 hours per week I get maybe 10-12 months from them before I start getting back ache, get a new pair and pain is gone.
Simply put, when you start feeling pain, you are already long over due.

@Sibeer - Good question, and one I can answer with some degree of accuracy.
Terra work boots, 65% of their line is "Made In Canada" , these are the older styles, simple boots, built like tanks, much like the Red Wings Sgt Tibbs has, the "Terra Regulator" , steel toe, steel plate, full grain leather and maybe 200g thinsulate = $170 MSRP (CND)
Now we look at newer models made "offshore" , the "Terra Bridge" , full grain leather, 200g thinsulate, waterproof membrane, acid/oil/slip resistant sole, composite toe and balistic nylon plate (lighter, more flexible, doesn't draw the cold or heat), superfeet orthopedic insoles, cambrelle moisture wicking lining, also built like tanks but half the weight and tripple the technology and comfort. = $230 MSRP (CND)

Several companies have told me about possibly moving some factories back "Onshore" and are projecting up to a 40% increase in Retail prices for the same product.

So in short, a $200 boot made in China by a major brand will then be $280 for the exact same product, only difference will be a nice tag saying "Made In..." and some people in home country being employed.

While this is a great idea, most people think $120 is too much for work boots or $100 is too much for running shoes.

Like I said, we've done it to ourselves.

 

It's the same with fuel prices, the most complaints and letters politicians get after taxes is fuel prices, then the same people who moaned about fuel prices don't understand why foreign policy is based around energy resources and why there are so many troops in the middle east, why the UK and US organised a coup in Iran, why we attacked Saddam then finally invaded.

We asked for those actions and wars by proxy.

 

You do have something of a point, although I will always be willing to pay more for a product made at home with well-paid labour (preferably union) than for a similar product made in China by someone forced to live and work under conditions worse than we would allow the family pet to endure. I realize I'm a rarity. The key phrase for me is, "and some people in home country being employed." Because if I don't support my fellow workers, how can I expect them to support me? In other words, if they lose their jobs, they most likely won't be buying tickets to a show. If they don't buy tickets to a show, the shows stop coming. And if the shows stop coming, then I'm out of work as well.

As to the boots...yeah, they weigh a bit. But I'm so used to them I honestly hardly notice when they're on my feet. Every time I take them in for maintenance they have me put them on and make sure they still fit (we didn't do that this time since my foot is still screwed up), and I've been assured all along if they're no longer fitting properly or giving me proper support, they'll tell me it's time for a new pair. Considering how long it's been, I'm pretty sure they still fit well, because lord knows I would've wanted to sell me more by now if I was them. I do get the high end insoles, and replace them about every nine months, though, which I know makes a difference.

Ironically, flexing is no longer a good thing, since the surgery I had done was to fuse the bones in my right great toe so it no longer bends. LOL But I figure while I don't wear them every day, one of my work days can be anywhere from four hours to 20 hours, and they happen anywhere from 1-7 days a week. Putting them on still feels like coming home, and there is no accompanying backache or pain in my feet. Built to last, of good construction, and as comfortable as wearing my shearling-lined slippers. I am looking at buying a new pair this year, though, purely because mine are so beat up I can't wear them to work corporate events any more.

As far as I'm concerned, $120 is cheap for work boots! LOL

 

I'm pleased to hear you think that way, I agree, if we all stopped bitching about price then our economies would not be in such a mess, and nor would we.
I often use the analogy that $50 every 8 months and $20 per month on pain killers... or $150 for a good pair that keep you pain free for a year. Pretty easy equation to work out.

The reason your boots feel like "You're home" is because they are moulded to your feet and you are used to them, doesn't mean they actually still fit well.
the weight issue is a fairly new one, I always had heavy boots and preferred them, but nowadays even young lads complain their boots are too heavy when they are wearing lightweight ones.

Insoles, well here's my take on insoles.
Gel = A soft cushion but at the cost of proper stability and support, think of it like placing a wooden board on 4 balloons, that jelly like wobble is what is happening to your feet.

Gel/Plastic brace (like the "Custom" Dr Scholes you can now get) = again it's gel but the plastic brace and somewhat custom fit will provide a much more stable seating with cushion added.

Memory Foam = This is better than Gel as it moulds to your feet with every step, provides support and cushion at the same time.

Cork = Such as Birkenstock insoles, these are hard and provide no cushion, but undoubtedly the best solution, cushion is not the be all and end all, your footwear should provide the cushion or even a flat gel/mem faom insole on top or underneith the Birk. Due to is being cock it slowly molds to your feet, proividing near perfect structure, support and stability, it can take several days or even a week to get used to them but in the long run they last longer and provide the best support.

Plastic and Foam = Such as "SuperFeet", these have varying plastic braces for heel and arch support and stability, they are top lined with a standard foam which molds quickly to your feet and the next best thing to Birks or arguably the best thing for sports shoes.

Oh my god, I know way too much about feet :-D

Edit: Something I often tell people "3 things you don't cheap out on, House foundations, Tires and Shoes... why, because they are all the base of what they hold"
And that doesn't mean you have to spend hundreds, but $90 over $30 will make a huuuuge difference, I've often had people tell me their Walmart shoes are great... yeah, until I put a Clarks or Saucony on their foot. Point proven , I do the same thing with people who wear Skateboard shoes, I will say they can have them half price if they can honestly tell me they are more comfortable than a Running/Hiking shoe when I put one of each on them. No one can EVER truely tell me they are. Don't care what you say, I CAN prove you wrong all day long, same with Flats and fashion Puma like shoes, you are walking on 1/8' off foam and 1/8" of rubber. Nike running shoe = 1/8' of foam insole and 3/4-1 1/14 inch of molding EVA foam. No argument, not possible :-D

 

My favorite one is when people talk about the superior build of Apple products vs. those "other" companies. Some even think they are buying American goods.


So uh, where do you think that Mac you use was made? China. Where are the others made? China.

rolleyes

Apple is mass produced in a sweatshop like the rest.

 

Sorry, went off on a tangent there :-D

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter where they are made as far as quality goes, the only real issue is home countries having less jobs and offshore workers being treated and paid poorly as Sgt Tibbs said.

If it's a cheap *** product then it's likely junk, if it's a good product then it's a good product, simple as that really.

 

Three things you should never skimp on -

Your Bed
Your Car
Your Shoes

You will spend most of your day in one of the three, buy the best.

(I wait for sales at Shoebuy.com, but also have supported Zappos.com before)

 

Can you call it a tangent when it's your own thread? :-D

Red Wing discontinued the insoles I used to love...can't remember the name of them, but they were the green ones. Now I'm using the Redbed style. I don't like it as well, but it's the best one for me. They don't last as long before they start breaking down, either. These I have to replace every six months, tops. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but the green ones were made in USA while the Redbeds are made in China. LOL

I did just notice they carry a one-year warranty, though. I'll have to see what that is. Maybe I can replace them every six months, but only pay once a year. That'd be cool! roflmao

 

From what I can tell, both are made from a hybrid Gel/Latex compound, the Redhead looks to have a plastic heel and arch brace?

That kind as described above do work quite well. It's also good to have an insole made by your footwear manufacturer since they will fit the boot better.

At the end of the day you listen to your feet, if they are actually speaking to you, you might need some help :-D but if something works and you get little to no discomfort or pain then something is working, but don't be afraid to try new things, the footwear industry moves at an alarming rate as far as technology goes, much the same as PC tech and many of the "Old tried and tested" products and methods do not work near as well as some new ones, by the same token the old ways are sometimes better.

Trail and error.

Edit: These are great, not for everyone admitedly but if fitted correctly by someone who actually knows how to, they can be a wondrous addition to your footwear.

 

Exactly! There's a gel patch directly under the heel, with plastic support around it and under the arch. The rest of them are that latex/foam hybrid stuff they use. My feet haven't ever spoken to me, but my lower back quite regularly does. :innocent

I have this instinctive inner shudder when I see Birkenstock. LOL However, I'm going to have to try new things whether I like it or not. The style of boot I wear is still made, albeit in China now, and I'll probably stick with those...they're the same ones my dad wore and my sister wears now. :-D But I need new shoes, and mine were discontinued ages ago. I'm only good at trying new things when it comes to computers and gadgets.

 

What shoes are you trying to replace that are discontinued? I may be able to point you to something close.

I would also strongly advise you to at least try on some other boots, you never know, you might find them better

 

I seem to have turned this thread into being all about my shoes. :-o I'll send you a message. LOL

 

lol I don't mind, I often hijack threads whether they are mine or not :-D

 

By their advertising campaigns I always assumed Mac's were made in a surgically clean white room with a single apple light on the wall, tranquil pan pipe music being played as men in white coats and fixed smiles work without pay for the sheer pleasure of putting together an apple product:-D

@Tibbs I tried to turn it into politics:-D

 

You say that as if we are supposed to be surprised :-D

 

http://www.allamericanclothing.com/

I got a pair of 'seconds' jeans from them for $25, good product. I messed up and ordered the boot cut, which don't care for, but that was my error. They seem to be well, made, and made in the USA with material from the USA.

Plus, they sell boots.

And some music to listen to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruNrdmjcNTc

 

I have a friend whose family includes United Auto Workers executives. She sometimes rags on me for driving an "imported" car.

My "import" is a Honda that was built in the USA. She drives a Chrysler that was built in Mexico.

rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

 

Bought my Toyota used from a former Iranian, now a US citizen. Car was put together in the US. Is that US enough?

 

The UAW publishes a list every year of every VIN and the country where it was made. They also list every make and model, and indicate if the vehicle was made all union, partially union, or non union. You'd think someone with UAW officers as relatives would know that.

 

If you think about it by buying from your own country your subsidising your own country's lazy over paid workers:-D

Discuss...

 

Well, if you want to call working 18 hrs/day 7 days a week for a place to sleep on the floor, a bowl of rice and five bucks a week, "a fair days pay for a fair day's work", then you might have a valid point. Until then _ I call "Bull-twag!". roflmao

 

Yeah I was only joking :-D It's subject I can't come to a conclusion on.

Ideally the guy who's willing to work for less is the what I would advocate, the free market. But the problem is no matter how much we talk about world government and working together we are still all in competition with each other.

 

Yes, absolutely, mate.

 

You might also consider what poverty is in the US vs real poverty in other countries, where a bowl of rice and $20 a week might be a LOT of $.

The 'average' person in poverty in the US lives in a house, has a car, TV, game system if they have kids, cell phone... Heck we pay people not to work. :confused

I do prefer the made in USA stuff, sometimes better quality over the foreign stuff.

 

Don't forget that just because it's made in your country of birth it doesn't mean that it will be of good quality. It was commonplace for cars in the 1980s coming off production lines to have coke cans in the doors and sandwiches in the dashboard in both the UK and the USA, and the reliability figures for cars made in the UK and USA in the 1970s/1980s were not as good as imports, which is why people decided to buy imports.

That might not be true now in the car industry, but it might be true in other industries...

 

What??? New cars used to come with Free food and Drink?? Why would they not do that now?? :-D

 

It only happened occasionally, but it was empty coke cans, and by the time the cars reached you the sandwiches would have been either rock solid or covered in mould.

Also, in the UK at least, many cars were poorly finished as the workers only put in light work between their strike breaks, which were held on average twice a week.

It's what you get for employing men in donkey jackets with militant union workers.

 

For many years i drove nothing but Jaguar until i bought one and found a note in the glove box that said "this is the last car to come off the assembly line today(friday) so please do not drive it too hard" it was obviously a joke but the auto spent more time with the dealer than with me in it's first year,
Since 1990 i have had Toyota and Lexus with the only downtime for servicing.

 

I love my assembled in USA by non union workers Toyota!

 

Toyota makes reliable and boring cars that you rather yawn about than drive.

 

Well, guess I am a boring old fart, cause I love my car, and it is fun to drive. For a four banger, it is pretty quick. There are TONS of Camrys in the roads around here, so finding parts will not be a problem when it does need work.

 

Old fart.

 

Tough car though-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk

 

Get off my lawn! :-D

 

I found my Lexus to be a fantastic auto but due to my disabilities i had a problem getting in and out of it so i bought a Toyota RAV4 that has big doors and will have no problem buying another when i am finished with this one (yawn)
So FRED from one old fart to anther GO TOYOTA.

 

Just sayin. There are better performers that are just as well built for the same or less price than Lexus and Toyota.

Lexus just adds trim to Toyota and jacks the price like Apple does for the Mac.

 

Maybe we should be quiet about it, let the youngsters buy flashy cars. If they catch on to them, could be a Toyota shortage like there is an ammo shortage in the US!

Uhh, Toyota's suck. You don't want one.

:-D:-D:-D

 

The point is Jeremy that if we all had the same taste everyone would be driving a Ford or Chevvy.
I loved muscle cars when i was younger and wasted many $1000 on them but as i grew older i do not need the 0 to 60 in 3 seconds any more (i would probably have a heart attack):-D

 

I have a Mercedes Benz, a B.M.W., a Volvo, (yeah, I know!), a Mazda and a Dihatstu Applause. Guess what car I use 90% of the time? ~ The Piddly Lil' Dihastu - Ha! :-D

 

Here in Belgium we have to pay a registration fee when you buy a new (or pre owned) auto mine for the RAV was $1300 and then there is a yearly tax for the privilege of using the roads and these are both on a sliding scale depending on the horse power of the auto,for my 2.5 litre it is $630 per year and for a jaguar 3.5 litre it is $1100 so you can see that unless you have a business that you are able to off-set the cost against tax most people drive smaller engine autos and being that i am now a pensioner i no longer need a big motor because i do not cover large distances, there is also an extra tax on diesel so you need to be a big mileage user to benefit from a diesel motor.

Just as an after thought we are paying over $6 per gallon for fuel so it is an expensive hobby motoring.

Hey Barry you would need to be a millionaire to have that number of cars here.